Muzzle Flash... AGAIN!...!

Post by gavin

its unlikly that the 96 would be much better as the barrell is still very blocked and its only 10mm compared to 9mm but i think that 45s are 11.5mm and the 1911 barrel would be difrent and probebly not as blocked

Post by rizzo

Yep, the .45 barrel is much more open than the 9mm, which is a shame for the 9mm If you look closely at the 9mm picture, there is a very small blue frame coming from the barrel.

Post by gavin

is that a flame it just looks like thick dirty smoke its a shame there arnt any berettas in .45

Post by rizzo

Ahh you could be right, although i always thought it was flame. I thought it was flame because that frame is taken a split second after i pulled the trigger- there isn't enough time for smoke to come out of the barrel at that point, imo.

Post by gavin

i dont think it could have generated enough heat becouse othre wise the ejetion port flame would be blue its a funny picture thou it looks as if the the guns expolded what did you think about using only half the amount of magneisium in the beretta do you think it might work better

Post by rizzo

Hmm, I don't think using less mg would make it come out of the barrel... I might try taking the gunpowder out of a cap, putting some mg in the cap and putting the gunpowder circle over the top of that...

Post by Spencerman



Ok, so maybe not the 96, how about the Wa Shan M9? It is a very open barrel, as many other owners can vouch, and can go full auto as it is a Dolphin model. I would like to do it with the Wa Shan 1911, it again has a very nice open barrel, but I am shit at taking film!
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Post by gavin

if its a full open barrell it might work maybe someone who ownes one can try it i thik it wuold look great espataly with 15 rounds in the mag 1 in the chamber and going full auto

Cerwyn wrote:

HMM, MGC rounds in the Hudson Greasegun. I take it that you mean the "real size" .45 MGC rounds not the Thompson rounds?

Hiya Mark,
I'm sorry, I messed up that link for you,
I've been using the same rounds with the o-ring and undrilled piston in both my MGC Thompsons and my Hudson Grease Gun...
As I remember, although my first MGC tommy had it's rounds in 'Hudson' boxes, they definately had the undrilled piston.
I bought several .45ACP rounds from Francky, all came with the same internals as the ones I had.
My new Hudson Grease Gun arrived with 6 x rds in a box but as soon as I spotted the drilled piston I didn't even try them. (As a result of the poor performance reports listed on here).
I automatically used my stock of .45's as used in the Thompson and I've had no problems at all.
Your message suggests that the rounds differ dimensionally?
Is this the case? Should I only use Hudson rds (with MGC internals) in my Grease Gun?

Cerwyn

Post by Mark



Actually, I just was trying to determine which MGC rounds that you where using. I can't see any problem with using the MGC (or any modelgun rounds) that feed, fit and work in the Hudson greasegun...As the pressures and other real gun ammunition interchange problems don't clearly apply to modelguns other than detonator size, magazines etc.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Hiya Mark,

That's a relief! I was getting worried that I was using the wrong rounds and destroying my gun without realising it!
My Hudson M3A1 works really well with the MGC .45's in it. I'm waiting for the delivery man to bring my magnesium powder (today I hope!) to try for a little muzzle flash with it...
I know it's been said before many times but this is one excellent working model gun, for such a simple thing. Maybe that's why, the simpler the better!
Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

The MGC .45 Thompson cartridges can be used, I would think due to their size, shape and their length being close to the Hudson originals. Now, that being said, just be sure to look at the plastic chamber area to ensure that it isn't wearing unusually. If the chamber/detonator appears good check the bolt face for any unusual wear too.

There shouldn't be any problems with usuing the MGC cartridges (other than wearing them out for the Thompsons use!)
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by fightdesigner

Late comer to the conversation, sorry... I haven't tried magnesium- Might have to give that a shot.

I have experimented with other stuff though.

For a film I was working on a couple years back, I needed the effect of a shotgun blast that could be done safely at almost point blank, and I didn't have any modelgun shotguns at the time (ordered an 870 riot gun from modelguns.co.uk, but it arrived snapped in half and jammed, and I never got any compensation).

What I did was I rigged up airsoft shotguns with flash cotton. I too was thinking about flash paper, but I went to a local magic shop, and they had both flash paper and flash cotton. The proprietor, who I'd worked with in a musical once, was kind enough to demonstrate the difference for me by setting off a bit of each in his hand.

Flash paper went up kind like fwooooosh.
Flash cotton? More like Poof.

Faster, less flamelike, more explosive looking (but still harmless). Basically just goes up faster, due to more surface area I presume.

So, I used some of those little confetti-launching plastic 'champaigne' party popper firework things (they have those in the UK or elsewhere? Maybe it's just a US thing...) in the barrel, with a bit of monofilament sticking out the back of the gun to set it off, a flash cotton load on top of it, and a bit of 'wadding' on top.

Worked pretty well.

I don't know if it could be added to a little brass casing and still work, but now that I have one of the Hudson 'Mad Max' sawed-off shotguns, I might try seeing what it's like stuffing some flash cotton down the barrel of that when setting it off.

The stuff isn't cheap, though.

Here's the trailer for the movie, btw:
http://www.akinafilms.com/TRAILER.mov

We used mostly blank fire guns, some real guns firing blanks, some airsoft, some dummy rubber.

-Kevin
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Freelance hack... and slash, and gun.

Hello Kevin

Thanks for your post, I wonder how much of the flash cotton you need to get a decent effect, and what's needed to ignite it properly?
Yep, 'Party Poppers' are available here in the UK so I can understand what you did.
The problem with a cp brass round is that it's a chamber relies on a sealed piston with it's integral firing pin being pushed into a percussion cap. Blowback is achieved by effective gas sealing pushing the piston back up the chamber.
There's little (no?) room for cotton I think, although a little magnesium powder can be sprinkled in there.
Be interesting to see how your shotgun project goes though, I'll look forwards to reading your next installment.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by GZ22

Please be careful when using flash cotton or paper, The greater the degree of confinement the greater the explosive force. Very small amounts are fine, as a criticial mass of several grams is required in order to produce a detonation. Flash cotton & paper is a true high explosive and is very sensitive to heat, static and friction. Use it in small quantities only please - stay safe.

Post by Jez_JRP

"several grams" is a hell of a lot though. I doubt you could FIT several grams comfortably inside a MG cart and still have it function at all.

Post by fightdesigner

I generally only used a little wad- it's expensive stuff, and if you use too much it just ends up shooting unbunrt cotton out the end of the barrel. Can't be densly packed either. You have to fluff it up a bit. Never tried weighing what I used, though.
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Freelance hack... and slash, and gun.

Post by GZ22

The amounts you would use are absolutely fine - there's no danger of a DDT occuring. As has been said, it would be impossible to use the amount required for a DDT in a modelgun barrel.

The background I come from taught me to always hold a great respect for energetic materials, and to "Never forget that the ultimate purpose of an explosive is to explode". That's why I sometimes seem to get a bit heavy, just wating to make sure that my fellow modelgun users stay as safe as possible

Cheers,

GZ

Couldn't agree more, any flammable or explosive product or device needs respect.
All safety orientated advice, however' heavy' is always welcome.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Here you go, try this.
I'm experimenting with mixed success at the minute trying to get muzzle flash from short barrel SMG's.
Rizzo, one of the forum members has used this powder to great effect and he posted some video clips of good flash from him 1911 Colt.
If ever I get anywhere with my SMG's I'll try posting something up too but as yet, I'm nowhere close to Rizzo's success with this powder.

https://2img.net/h/i91.photobucket.com/albums/k300/cerwyn/MAGNESIUMPOWDER50G70MICRONKNO3SHOP2.jpg

It's easy to buy from http://www.kno3.com/product.asp?itemid=13

Good luck, and if you try it, let us know how you get on!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

http://www.rizzomedia.com/video/1911.wmv

Vid of 1911

Post by fightdesigner

Nice! I take it the first mag was without magnesium, the later shots with?
Is the gun actually top-vented, or is some of the magnesium just slow burning enough that it's still bright when the brass is ejecting?
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Freelance hack... and slash, and gun.

Post by GZ22

The magnesium powder reacts very fast with a very bright flash and flame front.

Post by rizzo

Yeah. It's an open barrel modelgun, but some of the mg escapes through the chamber aswell.

Post by Claymore

Ok, i have done some vid of muzzle flash using the method of loading the caps as used by that very talented modelgunner in Japan (thanks GZ22 for contacting him).
I did not used much magnesium powder just a little scoop and then use the only stuff i had which was light weight foam padding which i cut thin. Some of the foam was a bit big and i think caused a couple of misfires and it did not all burn away but most of the rounds the foam burt no problem, you really dont need much to hold the powder in.

Sorry about the darkness of the vid at times not only was i learning about how to load the rounds but how to take a vid of muzzle flash, i thought a darker room would show the flash better but it seems not and i think next time i will have to stand further from the lens and put the cam on zoom as the pic actually white out for a instant as the flash comes out, so unfortunatly you dont get the full effect of how good the flash is, hence the stills.

the mag powder is very fine that i have it came in a small 50g tub but the company no longer seems to exsist so i will have to search for somewhere else.
The powder does leave residue trace in the barrel and inside the gun but its all easy to clean and does not seem to harm the gun in any way.









https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v627/claymore/?action=view¤t=muzzleflash.flv


I used a mgc beretta m9 and an mgc series 70 45, barrel size and det pin size make no difference it seems