Muzzle Flash... AGAIN!...!

Post by MT01

...
Ok, time for a lame picture...



Very nearly did not post the picture as it was so non dramatic, but did so for comparison in case anyone else is going down the magnesium firestarter block route (Made me kind of laugh when compared to claymore or rizzo's spectacular attempts.)

The Picture...
This a Marushin M92F CQB firing M.G. caps with powder made from the Magnesium Firestarter block I got off ebay. (used marushin rounds as they punch a hole in the cap and hopefully would ignite the magnesium on the way out)

As you can see this does not give off much flame - just makes the MG caps look a bit like the Marushin flame/spark caps instead. In fact could not see much flash at all from the firing position.

The Method...
Originally tried using shavings - but this did not work. Ended up using a coarse metal file and managed to grate a nice heap of fine powder off the block.

I decided to load the Marushin caps as normal, then poured a little powder into the nose and capped this off with a single ply round disc of tissue (separated from normal 2 ply tissue), pushed down carefully with loading tool.

The Result...
The picture you see is the most amount of flash I could get from trying differing amounts of powder. As I tried increasing the amount of powder, the rounds just ended up getting clogged and did not ignite at all.

The Problem...
I think the problem with this particular block, is that the it is actually a magnesium alloy that does not seem to be that reactive - obviously so that it can be carried around safely as a block. It definitely needs spark temperature to ignite it as burning match flame temperature will not set it alight.
It may well be that the Marushin Flame caps might ignite more of the powder?? but unfortunately I don't have any to try with.

Conclusion
Its not possible to get the same amount of flame as claymore or rizzo from this block (with MG Caps anyway).

Anyway - hope this helps to set realistic expectations if anyone is going to try with the type of block shown in my previous post above. Also hoping someone proves me wrong and gets this working much better

Post by Claymore

Thanks for the info, well thats a pity but maybe it will be as simple as using rounds with caps that point forward and using marushin caps that spark more maybe that will be enough to ignite the mag powder properly.

Are there different types of blocks you can get that may work better. I am still searching for somewhere to get the powder from it must be obtainable from somewhere, i did manage to get some powder with aluminium in it which i thought might make it spark but it seems to be completly inert

Hey MT,

That pic looks fine to me mate! If I could get that much flame from the muzzle of a short barrel SMG I'd be over the moon.
Personally I don't really want great long flames pouring out of the muzzle, just a hint of flash, exactly like your photo in fact looks realistic enough for me.

Like you I'd been trying using Marushin rounds with MG caps (the non sparking ones). My thoughts match yours, the igniter pin pierces the cap allowing gas and flame through to the 'bullets' nose to ignite the Mg powder. Maybe I'm using too much powder, maybe my MP40 barrel is too long and the flash has burned out before reaching the muzzle?

Your method works going by the photo so I'll be buying a starter block and trying Marushin (sparking)caps next.

Well done mate, I think you've cracked it

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by MT01

Thanks for feedback guys. Claymore, I've searched and read speculation on web (forums discussing flash effects in magic tricks of all places!) that sites like KN03 are being clamped down on for selling potentially volatile substances to 'Joe' Public - specially given the recent state of security we now find ourselves in. Hope you do manage to find a proper source for some magnesium powder.

As for the flame, it looks acceptable in the picture, but when firing, its over in less than blink of an eye and easy to miss! It might be more noticable though from an SMG, and hopefully marushin caps might do the trick. Looks like you might be able to try this out before me Cerwyn?

So that's why kno3 have gone then is it? Makes sense I suppose but if a determined terrorist can make a bloody bomb from fertilizer and hair bleach why clamp down on a firm selling chemicals used by Industries everywhere? Bloody Nanny State again...

Anyway MT, if the muzzle flash you managed to capture on film can be repeated shot after shot, despite being over "in the blink of an eye" then hopefully an SMG just might give a longer effect. (should do in theory anyway)
I have no real experience of real firearms, it's been years since I fired one, but I can clearly recall being out at dusk with a group using shotguns. One guy was firing a particular type of cartridge that produced a candle flame shaped (if you know what I mean!) flash from the muzzle. That was over in the blink of an eye but that's roughly the sort of effect I'm after. It's a machine gun I've got, not a FlameThrower!

One of the Japanese sites posted on here a long time ago now had footage of somebody shooting off a model shotgun that literally poured out a flame about 2ft long with sparks and stuff flying everywhere. Impressive but nothing like any real one I've ever seen!

There was that video just recently of that Japanese gentleman firing a G3 (I think) down those stairs, now that only produced a small short flash but it looked a sightmore real to me.

With any luck, I'll load up my trusty MP40, Marushin rounds and caps, I've only got kno3 Mg powder at the mo' and try your tissue paper method by the weekend...

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Claymore

Well, i tried it in the greasgun today and nothing out of the barrel apart fom a lot of smoke (which is OK) you get a lot of flash from the breach though but that you dont really want, trouble is you start getting a lot of misfires as residue builds up fast in the breach and on the det pin.
I dont think this has anything to do with barrel length its more the chamber and the fact that although the barrel is open and does vent smoke the chamber itself is not open that much and obviously pushes the blast back into the bolt.
Not so sure the marushin mp40 will be much better even if you do open the end holes of the chamber i think it is still to restrictive, if you look at handguns they are far more open than the chambers in sub guns.
So unless you can open up the chamber a lot i really dont think mag powder will work.

I think you're probably right Clay, unless the pathway out is really clear there's not much hope.
There ain't a lot you can do to open them up really without weakening the bottom of the det chamber.
My original MP40 is one of Jay's modded ones, that's had the chamber vent holes opened out a bit more but any more than that would end up breaking it I think.

As a matter of interest, are you using Hudson inners or Mgc Inners in your .45's firing through the Grease Gun?
If it's MGC, have you needed to modify the det pin at all? Mine's looking like it's a touch too long I think. I'm sure it's tip is blunting over some.

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Claymore

mgc inners and the det pin looks fine, have you taken the grub screw out that holds the pin in place, Francky advised me to remove this or the chamber could break, could be your problem

Post by Jez_JRP

One thing I'm curious about, has anyone tried shooting their flaming balls of Mg through a funky flash-hider or compensator to see what happens?

claymore wrote:

mgc inners and the det pin looks fine, have you taken the grub screw out that holds the pin in place, Francky advised me to remove this or the chamber could break, could be your problem

The Grubscrew is still in mine mate. I thought the pin might move about without it and break the chamber...
The bolt on the Grease Gun gives the cartridges a pretty solid clout. I was afraid the det pin might get pushed back into the chamber.
Yours works fine without it then obviously so thanks for the tip!
Cerwyn

Post by Doc

photo courtesy of MGCUK



They will now sell you pots of this fine powder at £27 per 112g

(oh this might be only if you have bought something off them)

Don`t ask what its made of as I dont know but it makes a ruddy big boom !
(looks like a mix of a few things)

I`ve used this a few times now with no damage to the gun although it does make a light grey deposit , only misfired when I thought I was being clever and added too much .
If too much is used the det pin has a "soft cushion" and won`t let the cap go off.

I`m personally quite surprised at the added volume of this going off which is especially noticed if someone else fires the gun and you are to the side .
(I think bloody hell ! was the expression used)

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

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Post by rizzo

Nice find doc!

Here's a vid montage I shot yesterday, a mate needed some footage for a graphics project on urban violence- features some nice m9 muzzle flash, although I still can't get the Uzi to do it



www.rizzomedia.com/hoodz.htm

Post by MT01

Woohoo

Only problem is I've never bough anything from them - let's hope they're having a good day when I ask !

Post by Claymore

Hi Doc, mgc comes to the rescue again, great i will get some ordered

Post by GZ22

Nice vid Rizzo! And a good find there Doc - excellent flame colour! If anyone gets some please describe the texture and appearance to me (out of interest I'd like to know what it is) if it doesn't say on the label of the pot.

Hiya Doc:

That looks like a nice shaped flame too doesn't it? Did you load it up as per the MGC type cartridge shown earlier in this thread please?
have you been able to achieve anything close to that with an SMG please or does it look like only the wider barrel'd semi auto pistols are suitable?

I've plenty of the Mg powder I bought off kno3 left for now and I've some blocks coming too but if your powder can work with smg's like my MP40 and Grease Gun I'll give Kevin a call at MGCUK later!

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by fightdesigner

If it helps, I just uploaded a picture to my MySpace page that I found a while back of some real muzzle flash, for comparison:
http://a571.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/46/l_af08a5a1e8f8c6bde2ec400378d7219a.jpg
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Post by Claymore

This one covers 2 subjects, muzzle flash and the wa shan models.

This is the wa shan M9 beretta semi and full auto, its firing p220 rounds which fit fine and work superb as you can see.


https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v627/claymore/?action=view&current=m9fullauto1.flv

Post by MT01



Very nice indeed claymore. That model fires really well!

Does this work as well with MG caps as well? I think reducing amount of sparks coming out the ejection port will make effect even more realistic - or is it actually the flash powder that is coming out of the ejection port?

Post by GZ22

Well fellas, we now know why kno3.com went offline:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/6316433.stm

http://www.thesop.org/index.php?id=4164

I'd never used them, but I looked at the site a while back and always thought that the way the site was set out and the apparently 'no questions asked' approach they had was a bit strange.

Post by bobbybobtroop

I'm just about to try magnisum, I currently us after effects for my flashes and probibly will continue to do so. I thought I'd share some of my work here. It's been a long time since posting but I learned a lot from the forums. Gone are the days of obssession over venting smoke from the muzzle f the MGC Thompson. I plan to film more with the thompson soon. my video can be seen on youtube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYts6Ltxbmg Oh, and I'm still paying pennies for super bang caps from KB toys.
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I like guns, just don't like killing people... so much

Post by bobbybobtroop

I'm just about to try magnisum, I currently us after effects for my flashes and probibly will continue to do so. I thought I'd share some of my work here. It's been a long time since posting but I learned a lot from the forums. Gone are the days of obssession over venting smoke from the muzzle f the MGC Thompson. I plan to film more with the thompson soon. my video can be seen on you tube. search for "gun fight at home UNFINISHED WORK!!!!" Oh, and I'm still paying pennies for super bang caps from KB toys.


here are my digital flashes if anyone is interested. You can view them on you tube, I have a vid with a plot with a camio of the MGC Thompson with muzzle flash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYts6Ltxbmg
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I like guns, just don't like killing people... so much