Oct. 1st is looking... So what are you going to Buy???

Post by Phobus (Aug 17, 2007)

Very Crap Regulations are looming ever closer so what are YOU going to buy ?? What are you going to DO ??

I am already thinking about joining milsim groups and skirmishers just to stay in the game - any of you guys in the UK got any similar ideas ?

Like I REALLY am going to run around in the woods with my airsoft replicas !! ...what if it gets scratched ?? ...or I get scratched

I don,t mind admitting that if there is ANY way that I can continue with my hobby , I will . I just collect , pure and simple , the mechanisms fascinate me , and the way they snick and click in the hand , and the way they look .

My guns rarely get shot or leave the house and I feel particularly aggrieved that this GOVT deems this activity unacceptable . WHO ASKED FOR THEIR OPINION !!! Where will it all end ?? This month its the smokers , next month its the shooters , every month its the car
drivers ....blimey , they got me with all 3 !!!!

My problem with milsim is location . I live in the North where this does not really exist afaik . Very few gunshops too , and you can forget about airsoft shops ar replicas except maybe Chris Johnson in Harrogate - deacts / replicas / CO2s / military surplus gear.

Well I will probably be getting a sniper rifle from RSOV ( remington 7.62 replica as used by marine snipers with wood ( fake ) stock , and almost definately a Beretta 92 FS by Wa Shan in Silver . Always wanted one , although I have a couple of Berettas including a new KWA 93R airsoft .

Then very soon the door will be shut , and I wonder about the future of MP40 even because the UK guys will not have a lot to talk about , except maybe the good old days when our GOVT trusted us with these inert toys .

Regards .

CARL.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by Phil_D

Mate,
I am moving over to real steel (target shooting) with classic rifles and black powder pistols.

I fancy getting these to start with, Lee Enfield No4 Mk1, Mauser K98, Mossin Nagent, Anshutz target rifle and a Colt Navy 1851 pistol. There are a lot of M4 type single shot clones available but at the moment they dont fall into my list but maybe in the future they might.

I will keep the model guns and if i need anything new i will get it sent over in parts, e.g. frame first, then slide, this way i am buying spares which dont fall into the VCR
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Too many to list now and the collection has stopped still growing.

If I've understood the loopholes and exemptions in te VCR Act correctly, a paid up member of bona fide Re-enactment groups and Airsoft skirmishing clubs may continue to Buy/Sell replica imitation firearms after Oct 1st.

With this in mind, I'm joining a newly formed Airsoft group locally to cover that angle, and also a WW2 Re enactment Group which should allow me to enjoy my hobby legally from all angles.

No-one really knows how things will be Policed yet, but I'm told that having a Membership Card and Number of bone fide Re-enactment or Airsoft Groups will satisfy the Law, for the time being anyway.

I would be grateful if the Reenactors amongst us could verify this if possible please?

Hey Phobus, I'll dig out some websites for Reenactors and Airsoft sites for you in Yorkshire and nearby,there are loads of them.
Again assuming I've understood this, Membership doesn't have to mean you turnup at the sites so many times a year or whatever. Paying your subscription warrants membership...

Our existing collections are safe regardless, no-one will take them away (yet!) but buying new stuff can only continue if we join these groups.

I sincerely hope the MP40forum continues like this. We may well have fewer new models to talk about but the problems of keeping themworking and in good shape will still be there won't they?
I consider this forum to be a friendly and welcoming site to visit daily. Without it, and the contributing members, modelguns would be an extremly lonely hobby for me but the forum makes it possible to share the hobby, learn more, and enjoy it.
Let's try to keep it going please lads?

I'm still working towards arranging a day out / weekend that we could meet up to get together and have a Modelgun weekend.
What would yoiu think about a Paintball / Airsoft / Tank Driving event incorporating our pfc modelguns too?
I might have just the place if you don't mind travelling to North Wales that is.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by ljerr2

I am not familiar with the re-enactment laws, etc in the UK, but maybe the MP40 UK members start their own re-enactment group? Set your own rules and dues, etc?

Post by Doc

Re enactment groups by law are required to have a few set things in place , Public liability insurance (PLI), a committee voted in to cover certain roles , approx 4 AGMs per year, a constitution etc etc...

As for having a membership ID as a "get out of jail free card" ....... hmm ..... I`m sure the Gov will have thought of this as a possible loophole so I dare say you may be asked to support that you are indeed an active participant in these activities.
We`ve had a few people ask to join us recently and once we mention there is a long list of kit to get and you`ll be required to be wearing it at a gig to get your ID then you dont hear from them again.
We may be a little more strict than other groups but are being this way to protect our 86 or so members from ALL eventualities when "they" come a calling ....
As far as Im aware the HO have not yet issued the details of possible defences.

Best get what you can before Oct to be on the safe side .

I can almost guarantee the gov will be looking to make some spectacular busts post Oct 1st (to get the message across) and you dont get much more realistic than modelguns .....

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by InEvasion

I think the only possible solution for myself is to purchase as many replicas, airsoft, blank firers, modelguns and airguns as possible before the VCR.

There is one problem though, I'm an unemployed artist whose work doesn't sell (woo surprise ) so one must bite the bullet and remain gutted/slightly bitter.

I sincerely hope everyone here shares the opinions I shall lay down right now, that after this Bill, firearms related crimes shall continue to soar, just like they have since the banning of Pistols after Dunblane. The only reason I can think of is that if scum want a gun, they have always been able and will continue to be able to gain a realsteel 9mm. It is these Kneejerk, hypocritical reactions which burden this country, just like the ban on Tasers after one 'postie' gets it. Sorry about that, I know talking about it doesn''t change anything, yet this VCR is one step away from complete insanity (in my opinion)

Post by richard jones

Whats the law regarding buying and selling replicas/modelguns between friends after the VCR-EG not from shops etc??

Post by Mark

I really can't say what I would do if I was living in the U.K. I would guess that I would probably be working towards moving out of the country as firearms are very fascinating devices to me and I love tinkering with them. It's interesting just how all of this is happening today in the U.K. I mean how can small groups of anti-gun people (a few thousand) start all of these problems for all of you firearms fanciers in the U.K.?

Anyway, the modelgun forum will remain as it was intended: for all people interested in modelguns and those that where curious about them. Although, I am sure that the posting will fall off....
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Doc

Quite difficult to sell much stuff between friends though .. certainly "open" forums like this one cannot be used as I dare say a screenshot of your "advert" will be admissible in court .

I`m not trying to poo poo anyones ideas just making sure all bases are covered .

Im still coming to grips that plastic models won`t able to be bought but you could buy a deact AK47 or Glock ....

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by 8ace

I think that while it is a small number of anit-gun people the vast majority of UK population dont like guns, so there is no support for the pro-gun lot and with the media going nuts it will only get worse

So i shall buy now and see what happens later. also i get to play with other peoples guns which need modification/fixing

Lots of good points brought up there.
I'll bet it's no coincidence that Sky TV are screening "Dunblane 20 years on" in the next week or so. Frighten the Public into even more anti gun frenzy I'll bet.

Thanks Doc for the info about Re enactors groups. As I said Group's worthy of joining will have to be bona fide and "professionally" run. If I were physically able, I'd gladly join up as aparticipating and active member but my need for wheelchairs tends to bugger things up!
I can, however, as an example, participate in Administration and assist a Group from the Wings.
I have most of the equipment I'd need to look the part already as I've been collecting gear for quite a while. The biggest problem would be distance as North West Wales is a little out of the way. Most groups seem to be down in the South of England or Up North.
But there are loads of them, finding a good respected one is the job.

Airsoft skirmish sites seem to be everywhere though. How many will remain after October 1st remains to be seen but it might be worth checking with site organisers if you can take a pfc modelgun along too as well as a bb gun?

It's certain the Govt are out to rid the Country of all guns eventually but there must be a way to continue the use of "Toys" surely?

I definately hope the forum continues as it is. I'd be lost without it and you bunch of lads!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Postby BRMoore

Having a Firearms Certificate can save you...because being licensed to shoot and own real steel won't have a problem covering replicas, and about the idea about going out and shooting PFC's...the cartridges are re-useable....and cost 2.10 each...lmao I was sad to lose 1 imagine how many you lose a year if you do reinactments all the time just to satisfy the Gov, the only country that seems to have it right is the U.S. if you ask me I'm South African and my uncle who I visited a couple weeks back complains about the laws there...and because his wife has a license they're legally allowed to have 2 pistols and 6 rifles in the house, which ain't bad if you ask me:P I even got to shoot a Lee Enfield .303 which is like a 100 years old, that was nice and a .38 special which kicks "a bit" but basically laws are clamping down everywhere and what the gov's don't get is all they're doing is taking arms away from law abiding people, but how can we ever tell them that, it's hard to convey that criminals don't follow laws....what a surprise that must be to them though...
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Owner of an M4 Commando. Tapco real steel stock fitted.

Post by Spencerman

I am too fat for anyone to believe that I would run around anywhere, even if people are shooting at me, so joining a club seems a bit stupid to me. I enjoy plinking in my garden, not shooting at people, so in my opinion I am safer with a gun than someone who airsiofts! I am personally going to continue with what I do, and maybe 'swap' some guns with fellow collectors, we shall see. I am actively petetioning for the return of pistol shooting with the upcoming olympics event, as how can any British shooter compete on a level playing field against other nations if they are not permitted to train, that is like expecting someone to pass a drivers test without having ever driven a car. If that all goes through in the end, then surely that will completely make an arse of this vcr bill even more, that real guns are ok and yet models are not. Who knows, maybe I will just collect real guns as they are easier to get and cheaper in this country anyway, and the best part is that you do not need to join a club, just go to the pub!
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Post by Phobus

Thanks Guys ,

Lots of response tells me I,m not the only worried person around here in the UK . I am thinking more towards Phil,s way of thinking , to get licensed , and bollox to them all.

Ironic that these laws simply direct people towards real guns instead of replicas - I doubt that was their intention !!

I held a SGC previous but never bothered renewing and there is an FAC club near me which I joined previously . 30 metres indoor , 100 metres outdoor ranges and lots of club guns ; rimmys , black powder pistols , full bore rifles ( outdoor ) until you pass your probation .

Hey Mark , you guys in the US must find all this so bizarre. Reading guns and ammo and the like , the US stance seems to be : The police can,t always protect you so arm yourselves ; in the UK its : The police can,t protect you , and HEY , you can,t protect yourself nor your families EITHER . ( ... and don,t even think about taking the law into your own hands you little shit ... )

I,m no expert but my take is that this has been going on for decades too. Did,nt we have few guns , nor people who knew how to use them at the outbreak of W.W. 2 . ?? and had to borrow from you guys in the States ?
God help us if we ever go to war again . I wonder what proportion of young men in the UK would know one end of a gun from another ?

One final point about replica,s . Near me , there is a sunday market in Leeds which must be a mile across . It takes all day to walk from one side to another . These market traders sell tons of cheapo airsofts , and increasingly , better quality ones as well . I will love to see how the GOVT plans to stop these guys from trading . And of course , to the average dude , a plastic £5 replica from here looks no different to your £500 deact, or real steel .

Regards.

CARL.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by Mark

Phobus wrote:

Hey Mark , you guys in the US must find all this so bizarre.

No actually, it looks all to familiar to me. You see, the fiendish thing is that the U. K.'s anti-gun crowd follows the American anti-gun idiots lead (at least what they can't get away with here in the U.S...............yet.) erstwhile gun-controllers are using the U.K. as a testing ground to see just what they can get away with with the aim of copying the ideas in the U.S as well.....
Allot of our regulations look strange and very weird to the rest of the world too. So, your firearms troubles in the U.K aren't unusual. (and you haven't seen the end of their madness yet! )

Post by 8ace

I could be wrong but on the home office document you cannot sell/import RIFs unless you are part of re enactors /museum etc... Even if you do have a firearms licence, although trying to read the document gives me a headache with all its legal mumbojumbo

Post by BRMoore

Phobus wrote:

in the UK its : The police can,t protect you , and HEY , you can,t protect yourself nor your families EITHER . ( ... and don,t even think about taking the law into your own hands you little shit ... )

haha yea this takes it back to what I've said somewhere here, criminals don't follow laws so it means there's alot of gun shops out of business(more guns for criminals because law abiders can't buy em) and law abiding people are left gun-less and criminals carry on doing what they do....
Turning a gun lover into a criminal just to continue a hobby is what they want...it must be I say we do what they want, get them illegally then we're all happy lol

Although the following is a copy of a reply I've had from a UK Airsoft retailer, the guns are still RIF's after all.
Might this be a possible way to continue buying modelguns too if the Airsoft sites were obliging enough to allow us to take them there?

Hi there,
I could spend hours giving you the full lowdown on the the intricacies of the impending VCR bill.
However i will summarise it down to following. It really only affects the puchase of aeg`s and pistols. It will not affect the purchase of accessory items.
Basically, you will need to register yourself at an approved & insured airsoft site. When you do this, you should be issued with a membership card with a passport size photo on it.
From there, your details should go onto the ABA`s database.
If you place an order via the internet or telephone, we can log onto this secure database and varify that you are an "airsofter".
From there we can release the rifle or pistol you are purchasing.
If you are purchasing over the counter, then you just need to show your registartion card.
Where abouts in the uk are you? You will need find you local site. If you are not sure then let us know and ile help you locate your nearest site.
Hope that this info is of use to you.
With kind Regards,
Airsoft Armoury Limited


Has anyone heard from our UK Modelgun Retailers yet? How are they going to deal with enquiries from people wanting to buy?
Who can they sell too?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by richard jones

Whats going to happen the the UK retailers vast stocks after Oct 1st if no longer legal to sell after Oct1st?

Are we going to see mad sales just before?

We can but live in hope!
Sales would be really welcome wouldn't they but not very likely I'd think!

I believe that dealers have a large customer base abroad and of course there's Film and Theatrical sales aren't there. Exporting RIFs from the UK isn't a problem either is it?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by BRMoore

You forget they can still sell to those who have real steel licenses(if they want model guns to display or something) and people involved in films and stuff so i doubt there will be any mad sale.....but I'd prefer a mad free giveaway if you ask me...lmao

I do reckon any small business will go bankrupt if they solely depend upon thier modelgun sales...I mean MGC isn't even in the UK and there's were some of the best and they went before the VCR....
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Owner of an M4 Commando. Tapco real steel stock fitted.

I'm pretty sure that sales to collectors and individuals like us is a small market for any dealer over here. The Film, Theatre and Reenactor Groups probably keep them in business.

Of the 2 UK based retailers of modelguns, one has indeed relocated to France, namely modelguns.co.uk although one message I did recieve from him stated that UK sales would still be shipped from a UK depot.
I don't know if this is to continue though.

Model Gun Collector (MGCUK )is still here in the UK

MGC were a Japanese manufacturer now sadly gone but not to be confused with either of the 2 UK based chaps.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Dartec

Hi,

Not been listening to the 'news' busy with other things, so surprise to read Oct 1st as D-Day.

Please can anybody point me to the latest update on spec/detail of the vcr bill, do not want to ;miss; any news. As a collector I have my models tucked away and tend to 'forget' about them. I will now and then get them out to clean and enjoy. Plus with other hobbies which I can do 'in the open' so to speak.

Amazing ho wmuch news can build up when you do not check the forum for a while.

Cheers.
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Regards
Ray
Gun ethusiast and collector of modern model guns. Beretta 93r & M9, Derringer, Colt .25, Scorpion v61, V10, R31, USP

Hiya Ray,

The VCR Law is about as clear as mud mate but however

Ownership and Use of modelguns will not be affected.
Our existing collections are safe at least.

Buying any spares or accessories remains unaffected too.

Buying new or used guns though is the problem. The law as it stands will Ban all sales, Importing, and manufacture of Replica Imitation Firearms as from October 1st.
Where it all falls down is how the F**k do they intend to police it? Film makers and Reenactors will be exempt (under certain conditions), Airsoft users or Players will also be exempt too apparently but nobody seems absolutely certain yet.
I keep getting conflicting reports from Organisations directly involved so as I said it's as clear as mud.

At least our current collections are safe. Justdon't venture outside waving your modelgun about though...

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Dartec

Hi Cerwyn,

Thank you for that. I have been trying to wade through all the forums and info but got bogged down with it and not really clear.

But you've 'itemised' it for me. My collection is safe and I wil not be breaking the law. But no more although I would be bale to buy cpas, carts etc.

Cheers.

Ray
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Regards
Ray
Gun ethusiast and collector of modern model guns. Beretta 93r & M9, Derringer, Colt .25, Scorpion v61, V10, R31, USP