Oct. 1st is looking... So what are you going to Buy???

Hiya Ray,

That about sums it up as far as I understand it, so far!

I am still encouraged by the fact that certain exceptions willbe allowed under the VCR Law though.
I have now joined an authorised Historical Reenactment Group and also joined a local Airsoft skirmish site.
As far as we know and understand things, membership of bona fide groups like this should allow me to continue buying new replica guns should I wish to do so. (I'm not 100% clear what happens if I bought from abroad though as it means importing. Buying from the UK should be more straightforward?)

But even if this ultimately fails, my collection is safe, and I can continue to buy caps, spare parts and accessories at will.

As has been mentioned before, we can buy as many real deactivated guns as we like, they don'tcome under the VCR Law !!!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by richard jones

I am going to take a chance i think and try a Denix Ak47 and a couple of their Thompsons.Cannot afford it but it might be the last chance so screw it,why not

Post by Jez_JRP

The Denix AK is a piece of crap btw. It's nice from a distance but not a very good replica in my amateur opinion

As for me, I'm probably going to pick myself up one of the new ICS AK74m rifles and get back into airsofting. One fairly decent rifle ought to see me through til the end of my days on the battlefield.

I have plenty of other hobbies I enjoy as much as toy guns, so I guess it won't be a huge blow for me. I'm more pissed about the PRINCIPLE of people who have no right to judge me, or make decisions for me, deciding how I should live my life or spend my free time. What they're banning, to me, isn't so important as the fact they are permitted to do it at all.

It'll be interesting to see rates of violent crime continue to soar long after the last "could possibly be used as a weapon" item has been banned I'm half-tempted to squirrel a few such items away while I can before society collapses in upon itself.

Here's a link to posibly the first plain English (well, almost) information regarding Who Can, and Cannot buy, sell, import or manufacture Replica Imitation Firearms after October 1st...

http://www.airsoftcommunity.co.uk/forums/index.php?act=announce&f=138&id=78

Whilst the info is specifically about Airsoft weapons, I'm sure there is a great deal within it which will affect our PFC replicas.

I know this forum is not for Airsoft dicussion but if it is correct that only those actively participating in Airsoft skirmishing (i.e. getting out there and play fighting in organised wargames) will have the legal right to buy Replica Imitation Firearms, then we will have no justification to buy a PFC modelgun if we don't get in there with them...

I haven't seen anything as detailed as this from Historical Reenactor Groups yet, but there must be a response along these lines somewhere.

If I find anything, I'll let you know asap

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by metradio

cerwyn wrote:

...I know this forum is not for Airsoft dicussion but if it is correct that only those actively participating in Airsoft skirmishing (i.e. getting out there and play fighting in organised wargames) will have the legal right to buy Replica Imitation Firearms, then we will have no justification to buy a PFC modelgun if we don't get in there with them...

By joining an Airsoft skirmishing group this would only allow dealers to sell you 'Airsoft' Replica Imitation Firearms..

metradio wrote:

cerwyn wrote:

...I know this forum is not for Airsoft dicussion but if it is correct that only those actively participating in Airsoft skirmishing (i.e. getting out there and play fighting in organised wargames) will have the legal right to buy Replica Imitation Firearms, then we will have no justification to buy a PFC modelgun if we don't get in there with them...

By joining an Airsoft skirmishing group this would only allow dealers to sell you 'Airsoft' Replica Imitation Firearms..

Indeed so Mike, so the question is, where does that leave us?
The link's observations seem clear that a registered Skirmisher can defend his purchase of an Airsoft replica as he can demonstrate a need to have one. It excludes anybody else, i.e. Target shooters, "collectors and those with a passing attraction to realistic imitation firearms"
Looks like we don't have a leg to stand on...
Cerwyn

Post by 8ace

Does painting a blaze orange tip to the muzzle count as a RIF
From the home office website

Quote :

34 Meaning of “realistic imitation firearm”


(1) In section 32 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which—

(a) has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm; and
b) is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique.

(2) For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of

subsection (3)(b)) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any practical purpose if it could be so distinguished only—

(a) by an expert;

(b) on a close examination; or

(c) as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.


(3) In determining for the purposes of this section whether an imitation firearm is distinguishable from a real firearm—

(a) the matters that must be taken into account include any differences
between the size, shape and principal colour of the imitation firearm and the size, shape and colour in which the real firearm is manufactured; and

(b) the imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or principal colour is unrealistic for a real firearm.

(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide that, for the purposes of subsection (3)(b)—

(a) the size of an imitation firearm is to be regarded as unrealistic for a real firearm only if the imitation firearm has dimensions that are less than the dimensions specified in the regulations; and

(b) a colour is to be regarded as unrealistic for a real firearm only if it is a colour specified in the regulations.

But before this i shall be getting an UZI, M16A1 and an M1 Garand

Post by Jez_JRP

A significant portion of the gun would need to be a bright colour to make it a non-RIF or an IF... whatever... like, more than 50%.

So a pistol, for example, might need to have a brightly coloured slide, barrel and grips to no longer be realistic. Simply a blaze-orange muzzle wouldn't be enough I don't think.

Here's an extract from the info that link took us to:-

— For the purposes of section 38(3)( of the 2006 Act, a colour is to be regarded as unrealistic for a real firearm only if it is a colour specified in paragraph (2).
The colours specified in this paragraph are—
bright red;
bright orange;
bright yellow;
bright green;
bright pink; and
bright purple.

So who fancies a bright pink Thompson then?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Spencerman

I have seen real firearms that have been customised (1911) that have red, green and purple frames (not all at once, seperate guns). These were quite dear I believe but highly customised, so does that mean that they would count???
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Post by metradio

cerwyn wrote:

metradio wrote:

cerwyn wrote:

...I know this forum is not for Airsoft dicussion but if it is correct that only those actively participating in Airsoft skirmishing (i.e. getting out there and play fighting in organised wargames) will have the legal right to buy Replica Imitation Firearms, then we will have no justification to buy a PFC modelgun if we don't get in there with them...

By joining an Airsoft skirmishing group this would only allow dealers to sell you 'Airsoft' Replica Imitation Firearms..

Indeed so Mike, so the question is, where does that leave us?
The link's observations seem clear that a registered Skirmisher can defend his purchase of an Airsoft replica as he can demonstrate a need to have one. It excludes anybody else, i.e. Target shooters, "collectors and those with a passing attraction to realistic imitation firearms"
Looks like we don't have a leg to stand on...
Cerwyn

This leaves us a number of avenues:
a)For Airsoft weapons - become an Airsofter..
b)For blankfirers etc. - become a reenactor..
c)For realistic RIF's - go for deacs..
In the case of A and B, the limitation would be the number of dealers that are still in business after October the first, the variation of stock that they carry and the prices that they are charging.
In the case of C it will be business as usual..

Post by richard jones



But in the case of C highly inflated prices for OLD SPEC weapons

Post by metradio



As I said business as usual
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Mike

But don't forget Reenactors can use PFC models too, they don't have to be de-acs do they?

Given the choice I'd much rather a pfc modelgun than a welded up de-ac you can't even take apart.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

There may be hope yet for us pfc fans, let's hope so.

I believe that some reenactors hire out blank firing weapons at shows but only after undergoing training on how to use them safely. Perfectly sensible that when a blankfiring machine gun can hurt you if you treat it without respect.
For those in non firing roles a de-ac would be ample but I'm sure some must use pfc models they've bought themselves surely?
Granted a blank firing MP40 or Sten is going to be louder than a pfc gun and I guess one advantage is you needn't worry about losing spent rounds either. Single use blanks are disposable, I'd want to recover every pfc round I fire as they're so expensive ! I'm tight fisted too and couldn't bear the thought of loosing my rounds

I'll be sure to let you know when I get word from the reenacting hierarchy about the VCRA and them

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Spencerman

What you need Cerwyn are a load of bullets with your name on them, then people can return them to you, but that might be tempting fate somewhat!!
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Post by MadMike

Hi there in the UK, what are you going to do after October 1st? I think that authorities will look very close and try to make an example to show how well the new act works and how it is enforced. So I´d say it may be the best to keep low profile and not to buy any new replicas. What do you think?
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"It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over."

Post by Phobus (Sept 02, 2007)

I am interested in how they will go about stopping sales from HK and the like entering UK ?
My recent purchases seem to come through very quickly and appear to be untampered with .

I suppose full metal models are easy to identify with metal detectors / x ray etc but what about abs models ?
Will they allow the parcels through and then 2 weeks later you get the knock knock knock at 3 am in the morning ?

Or will they get stopped before they enter UK ? I doubt it because you could be a person with permission to purchase right ? ( re enacter or milsim )

... and supposing you get collared , what will the offence be ??
Importing illegal toys ?? No doubt it will get put under the category of " firearm offence " to boost the police firearm arrests - oh yes , we are on TOP of gun crime allright !!!!!

CARL.
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Marmite enthusiast

Well up until now, only one of my parcels has ever been "tampered" with and that was within the UK.
I've had several from abroad and as there's never been a problem legally importing replicas up until now (October 1st that is) there's been nothing to worry about has there?

I do wonder quite how a full metal replica Thompson, or a Ppsh41 can get into the country so easily though !
If the parcels are x-rayed, whose to know if the contents are Replicas or Real Firearms? Not one has ever been opened. Does Customs just check the manifest and accept "Model Toy"?

Volume of parcels entering the Country through our Airports every day must be enormous. I doubt that every single parcel could possibly be scanned carefully. We might well get away with private imports for some time BUT I dread to think what might happen if that one replica gun ordered from abroad just happened to be picked up by a Customs Official after 1st October.
The Government will certainly be looking for some spectacular busts to justify their VCR Laws won't they?

Customs would sieze the parcel, and the local Police would be knocking on our doors very soon afterwards I fear.
Would they be satisfied with rapping our knuckles? I doubt it...
Our collections are safe for the time being, there's no Law against owning nor using our replicas, but I'd bet that every gun we posses would be taken away for inspection and "expert analysis" to determine they weren't real.
If we ever got them back, I reckon they would be fit for the bin after that lot tried firing real rounds through them.

Best bet I reckon is to hang on for awhile, see what happens once the dust settles.

Buying from UK dealers still isn't clear is it? We still don't know which criteria we have to meet to legally buy a Replica from a retailer.
The Airsofters appear to be setting rules and guidelines but even that's still under discussion from what I can gather.

Where do EU regulations stand here? Would importing from within the EU be any different to the rest of the World?
Or is it all illegal?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by metradio

cerwyn wrote:

...Buying from UK dealers still isn't clear is it? We still don't know which criteria we have to meet to legally buy a Replica from a retailer...

The problem will be finding UK dealers - then finding ones that are willing to sell to us.. :?

cerwyn wrote:

...Where do EU regulations stand here? Would importing from within the EU be any different to the rest of the World?..

No..

There's only one left in the UK now isn't there, MGCUK? As far as I'm aware, they're awaiting clarification from the Home Office as to whom exactly they can sell to here in the UK.

The only other previously UK based has moved to France. I have e-mailed modelguns.co.uk., as he's still known as, but he is awaiting word from the Home Office too.

Meanwhile we wait, our money burning boles in our pockets with nowhere to spend it

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by richard jones

Another question for after the VCR-
Say worst case scenario your wife leaves you,lose your job etc and need to find some cash to survive-a lot of good your thousands of pounds worth of replicas/modelguns are to you if you cannot sell them to raise some cash

Hey Rich, my missus is already gone, I'm no longer working, thank Gawd I still have my model guns to keep me happy!

I take your point though, until we know for sure if we can legally sell privately to a Reenactor or whatever, we are stuck with our model guns post October 1st aren't we?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Phobus



Reminds me of the Brocock situation a few years back , and what I read about full metal models in Japan .

Where you can keep your gun ( Brococks + FAC ) but you can,t sell it or give it away , can,t exchange it , can,t replace it .

Gradually they will break or become unrepairable for whatever reason and HEY PRESTO the govt get what they REALLY want . No guns whatsoever to private citizens .

I am actually surprised they hav,ent started going after the REAL gun owners yet who have them on FAC . To me they represent a far greater threat than me and my toys and blank firers .

I think it is only a matter of time before private gun ownership is entirely forbidden in the UK .

carl.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by richard jones

cerwyn wrote:

richard jones wrote:

Another question for after the VCR-
Say worst case scenario your wife leaves you,lose your job etc and need to find some cash to survive-a lot of good your thousands of pounds worth of replicas/modelguns are to you if you cannot sell them to raise some cash

Hey Rich, my missus is already gone, I'm no longer working, thank Gawd I still have my model guns to keep me happy!
I take your point though, until we know for sure if we can legally sell privately to a Reenactor or whatever, we are stuck with our model guns post October 1st aren't we?
Cerwyn

Wow,sorry to hear about the missus
What i was saying is obviously the WORST case scenario and i for one never want to part with any of my collection but im sure you and some of the other die hard collectors on here must have built up a fair collection so its money down the drain if for any reason the shit wa sto hit the fan