SA 80 Modelgun ?

*** Originally posted by phobus ***

Quick question ,
Howcome all the model guns - with possible exception to pistols - are OLDER models ??

Why are there no FA MAS , STEYR AUG (drool ) , MP5 , SA 80 , SLR , or even sniper rifles like the Remmy 700 which has been around for DECADES .

M16 and M4 s are lovely but some different models would be nice !!

Thanks Carl.

*** Originally posted by interceptor ***

Thats right, hehe, too bad, but I guess Its mostly explained because modelguns are not that popular like airsoft is.

As it's not a big business affair, I guess manufacturers aren't 'pushed' to diversify so far their products ...

Never heard of the SA 80 before, btw ^^

*** Originally posted by cerwyn ***

Here ya go Interceptor...
Feast your eyes on this little beauty!
http://www.project-x.org.uk/sa80section.html
This is the main personal weapon issued to British troops these days.

Cerwyn

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

Yes and what a complety crap weapon the SA80 is, take it from me i used one for long enough. How many times has it been upgraded, i lose count, how heavy is it, way to heavyfor a pressed steel and plastic gun and it fails just when its needed the most. It failed in the gulf and the answer from the government was:
1. The troops were not cleaning it enough,eh! excuse when me when in the middle of a fire fight are you supposed to clean it.
2. we were not putting enough oil on it, eh! again oil and sand dont mix do they, a very bad combination i think.

That said i think the gun does look good and it does fire well on the range and yes i have an airsoft one and if they made the modelgun of it i would buy that too. However it is a gun no other force has taken on and for good reason.

To the main question, why are all model guns old models, well i think its been said before on the forum, all these models were made in the early 60's 70's and at that time all the replicas were Thompsons mp40's etc, since then airsoft has taken over and the market for modelguns diminished so to start new tooling on new modern models would be expensive so its cheaper to re-release the older guns as the machinery for them still exists.
Give credit to the companies though have brought out more modern handguns trouble is being HW abs not all these models are strong enough to fire many rounds and if modern machine guns were made of the same material i think they would break very quickly and making metal ones is going to be expensive and sales i think would not cover the cost of tooling unfortunatly. The shoei models are a good example of this superb metal guns but look at the price and even us enthusiasts cant buy them.

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

the stupid thing is the britrish army says they want the troops to take acurit shots insted of going auto they realy should of stuck to the slr chamberd in 308 i persanly hate bullpups i think they are ugly and as someone who likes to shoot a rifle left handed it would be uncomfertable to use but they cant get rid of it now because of all the money they have invested in it bring on the g36

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Well, the main problem as far as the late model firearms go is fairly simple and its all about cost. The modelgun companies like MGC are great at getting out new modelguns out on the market. However, they are mostly re-using their old molds and machinery to make new modelguns for us to buy. Now, if they where to sell tons of new modelguns then they would certainally feel that the market was large enough to tool up for entirely new modelguns.

Most of the earlier (and current) modelguns where popular guns at the time that the molds/tooling was drawn and made for these. Some of these molds are very old and they are very expensive to make. MGC made their MP5K (airsoft) in 1985-86? and they could have easily made a modelgun version of it quite easily too but, they didn't

As far as the SA80 is concerned, the M16 series had the same and sometimes worse problems when it was first introduced. I really don't like the "bullpup" configuration rifles that where the big rage in the early 80-90's

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

so they coul use the same moulds i wuold think that they wuold make enough money even on the japanese crowd to make a profit it just seems like they are being lazy when you think we cold have g36s ak74 m9a1 sa80 etc

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Well, the airsoft molds are different enough to preclude the use of them to make modelguns. The airsoft molds are intended to be simply empty outer shells to house electric motors etc. There are far more small parts that have to be made and fitted to work properly. I wish that they would make all new MP5's etc. but, the manufacturers are fairly weak and they don't want to risk an all new, slow selling, modelgun "flop"

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

i think it might be a flop due to the stupid japanese rules of no metal guns i guess the abs or heavy weight would break easy espesaly due to the fact that most people would fire off mag after mag of 30 rounders

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Well, that isn't quite the case, the Japanes can have all metal, model handguns but, they have to be gold plated as well as they cannot have a seperate barrel assy. Also, they cannot make them out of solid steel or steel stampings either. But, they can make them out of zinc alloys. Sadly, they can and do break due mostly to the Japanese governments fear that someone will make a real gun from one and that tends to make the modelguns weak...

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

and you know if they change the rules back some idiot will ruin it

*** Originally posted by interceptor ***

Thx for the pic, I made a search on google anyway

Indeed, this looks like a bit of a Famas, and I don't find it really good lookin, hell, just a question of taste.

I'm more into handguns so sry for not knowing this kinda gun. ^^

I noticed the magazine is behind the grip, makes me think of the Steyr Aug, what's the interest of putting the magzine behind like this?

I've been thinking about weight balancing, is it just the only reason ??

Cheers,

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

having the mag placed there is what allows the gun to be made that short yet still keep a barrel that is long (rifle size) it also puts the weight of the gun close to the shoulder which helps you control the recoil especially in full auto

*** Originally posted by jez_jrp ***

And in certain cases it allows the magazine to sneak out unnoticed and hide in the grass Perhaps not such a problem with real weapons but certainly an issue with a battered old Airsoft FAMAS. Oh the hilarity of attempting to do battle without a mag on.

*** Originally posted by cerwyn ***

Am I correct in thinking that the many modifications made to the SA80 actually prodduced a very accurate weapon indeed though? Granted accuracy is not much good in a fire fight if you're SA80 is stripped and getting the sand and cr*p cleaned out of it?
Is it true that qualification standards for 'Marksman' status in the British Army had to be raised as almost every 'candidate' was achieving high scores and therefore they were all 'Marksmen'? Or is that urban Myth?
There's a lot to be said for nice, clean and simple design ain't there, less to go wrong! What was so wrong with the Thompsons, Sten's and Stirlings?
I suppose though a bullpup design gives the short overall length of a sub machine gun, the long range accuracy of a rifle due to the long barrel and full auto when required? No thompson or Stirling could match it long range could it?
Cerwyn

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

urban myth cerwyn, with a susat sight on, on a 25 yd range anyone who misses must be cross eyed. It is an accurate gun and easy to fire but the trouble is this thing has been on the design boards since the late 40's and after all these yrs still having problems. There is a new model out now that maybe finally has sorted itself out, which would be good as i like the gun, i think it looks good but i wont even go into the problems and upgrades its had over the yrs and basic design faults it would take to long.

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

the story of the sa80 is exactly like the m16 they say that all the problems on the ars are fixed yet in the war they are isuing american troops akm i persanaly think the length of pull looks to short but then again i have long arms

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Anyways, this is getting too far off subject for me so, please limit the discussion to modelguns please...... The SA80 as well as other real firearms probably will never have a modelgun version for us to handle.. The MP5 possibly...But not many of the others, due to unpopularity etc.....

*** Originally posted by gavin ***

sorry mark ill do that fom now on

*** Originally posted by interceptor ***

sry, you said anything about a MP5 ? rumours u heard ?

*** Originally posted by mark ***

No unfortunately, I haven't heard any rumors that anyone is going to make one at this point. I am sure that if we could ask the right manufacturer if they would make one then, it might be a posibility.

*** Originally posted by interceptor ***

Do you have any idea on which one would do this on just for a few peeps asking them ?

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Hmm, I would think that either MGC or Shoei would produce the MP5 if they received enough emails..But, Francky or Bablefish would have to be used to translate our emails to them. Plus, as far as I know, MGC doesn't have any email adresses...So, Francky would need to be our "front man"if we wanted to contact them.

*** Originally posted by cerwyn ***

I don't know if this is even possible but:

If the end result required is a model MP5, or SA80 that fires PFC's...

Would you want an accurate reproduction of the guns's internals, or would the 'end result' justify losing the internal accuracy?

Could the internals from a current, similarly sized pfc modelgun be grafted into an Airsoft MP5 or SA80?

Could real magazines be modified to fit the gun, and to accept cp cartridges? Some can already?

Obviously to produce a faithful repro of the MP5's internals couldn't be done at home, but could a hybrid be built?

Cerwyn

*** Originally posted by spencerman ***

Well Cerwyn (I made sure to spell it correctly! ), I for one am not too bothered about 100% realistic internals, as long as the function and externals were correct. When I say function, I mean, I would not like one that fired from an open bolt, because that is wrong. I would rather have the civilian single shot variant and have it function correctly, than a full auto version that is just complete cockamaime. I also wouldnt accept the incorrectly shaped ejection port that seems to curse almost every airsoft version. It is wrong, and it looks wrong. I wouldnt mind slight compromises as many models do dimentionally, like a fatter body, smaller mags, that sort of thing, but not a completely different shape. I also wouldnt like an SA80 variant modelgun, but would kill for an MP5, and from MP5 comes all the varients, SD, K, etc. so one gun development becomes many different models in reality.