Hudson Mad Max Sawed Off Shotgun - Hammer mechanism seems not to work

First: A big hello to all in this forum!

I am a rookie so sorry for posting rookie stuff

I have a problem with my brand new Hudson Mad Max Shotgun with real wood grips
Yes... my first modelgun^^

It seemed the savety wasnt able to be moved, so I descided to open the Shotgun and take a look for an error in it.
(I once did that with a Hudson gas airsoft MadMax and it worked...)

Well after putting it together, loading a cartridge, putting the cartridge in and pulling the trigger...
nothing...

The hammers dont seem to cock and fall...

I may have disarranged a spill???

Can anyone who got one of these help me?
Or send a photo of HOW it has to look inside? How everything has to be arranged?

Thanks!

Hello BadBean, and Welcome to the Forum

Please do not apologise for asking "rookie" questions, newcomers are always very welcome, we were ALL rookies once in need of a little help to get started.

I don't own any shotgun models personally so I can't offer any practical advice, I know that many of our members will have experience of the Mad Max shotgun howver so I'm certain help will be on its way very soon.

Hello and welcome :-)

Just to make troubleshooting easier, could you please list all steps you make?

Hammers are cocked by breaking the shotgun (hard!), they will not cock on trigger pull. Apologies if I stated the obvious.

Ok!

The steps I made:

Screwed it open (two screws in the stock)

Opened it, realized the savety mechanism went out its place, putting it back.

Testing the gun: didn't work

Opened again, checking the springs, trying to figure out how they work and if they may be disarranged.


Writing a "help me mail"

Reading your answer and figureing out that i didnt break the gun hard enough because having fear I could damage it...

Breaking the gun hard: it works!!!



WHAT A WONDERFUL START IN THIS FORUM

thanks man^^

BadBean wrote:

Ok!

The steps I made:

Screwed it open (two screws in the stock)

Opened it, realized the savety mechanism went out its place, putting it back.

Testing the gun: didn't work

Opened again, checking the springs, trying to figure out how they work and if they may be disarranged.


Writing a "help me mail"

Reading your answer and figureing out that i didnt break the gun hard enough because having fear I could damage it...

Breaking the gun hard: it works!!!



WHAT A WONDERFUL START IN THIS FORUM

thanks man^^

What a wonderful start indeed

Please let us know what you think of your model shotgun after you fire it. Reading through the Reviews section, I notice each cartridge takes 3 x 5mm caps, that should make a good loud Bang

BadBean wrote:

WHAT A WONDERFUL START IN THIS FORUM

No worry, I had the same problem when I got my MadMax :-)
I was afraid to break it hard enough and it didn't work just like yours. It is not always clear if there is a problem with modelgun, or we are not doing something right. That's why folks this forum helps :-)

Cerwyn - problem with three caps is that (at least in my model) they do not fire all at the same time. Usually only one or at most two caps in a cartridge go BOOM. It is quite loud even with just one ;-)

BadBean - I found this video on youtube...

Is this a MadMax shotgun or another sawn-off model

The shotgun in the video is almost exactly the one I have!
Exept for his shotgun got a metal body, I believe its very rare to find.
I dont know if on his carton is also a "MAD MAX shotgun", but its certainly the same model line as mine.

I tried it with just one (instead of 3) marushin cap inside the house, and it was pretty loud!
His seems to be not as loud as mine, maybe its just the video, but he has nice smoke!
I wonder how to get the smoke...

It could be worth trying MG caps instead of Marushin type.

Marushin caps produce bright sparks, MG type have no such sparks but can produce more smoke.

Cerwyn,

Cartridge has no moving parts. There are three holes in its face, each for a 5mm cap.
Inside barrel there are three prongs, arranged in the same way as holes in the cartridge.
When you load cartridge into barrel, you need to rotate it so that prongs correctly enter holes with caps.
Hammer pushes back end the cartridge, forcing it onto "detonator prongs".
Depending on the push, and amount of powder in caps, it seems that they do not detonate all at the same time.

I will dig MadMax out of storage to get some pictures :-)


Shotgun in video is definitely a MadMax, but it seems to be either metal or nickel-finish version. I have only seen plastic body ones so far.

Having learned the hard way how badly made some Hudson models leave the factory (my PPSh being one such instance, and several others mentioned through the forum), could the Shotgun be modified or "tuned" to ensure all three prongs of the Det.Pin strike each cap simultaneously

Is each of the three prongs exactly the same length

Does each cap sit exactly the same depth in the cartridge

well

I have no idea of any tunings .___.

but it seems like every prong got exactly the same length.
And when loading each cap should sit IN the hole, but not EXACTLY the same depth,
it works fine... until now.
of course you can push the inside so they are all the same depth by force, but i assume its not necessary

Cerwyn - this should give you an idea what MadMax shotgun looks like in these places:

• three prongs inside each barrel. They seem to be the same size/depth, but it's not easy to measure them precisely.
  
• cartridge bottom (flat, middle gets hit by ...uhm... the hammer).
  
• cartridge top, with three caps installed. The are pushed inside fully, after shooting they require a needle-like tool to pull them out. Trying to pull out a live cap is not the best idea - when I stupidly tried to remove them for storage, the first exploded in my face. Fortunately I always wear glasses (just in case), and cap was pointing parallel to my face. Still, from about 30cm distance (15 inches for those of you on Islands ) I did feel the heat.
  
• broken shotgun, you can see two holes through which hammers will jump out.
  
• broken shotgun, top cartridge is properly sitted, bottom one does not have caps aligned to prongs.
  
• disassembled bottom grip (left) and barrel underside (right). This shows two protruding areas on grip face which are what cocks hammers via two silver "thingies" (I always run out of proper English words for such parts).

When cocking you need to push real hard, until you hear two consecutive clicks - this corresponds to two hammers.
As you can see from my other photo in Hudson thread, there is not enough clearance, parts touch and pot metal chips off from underside.





Some things to remember:
- after you remove front grip, barrels are not held to the main grip. They are merely hooked, and if you "break" them at 90 degress and pull up, you will separate the parts.
- I forgot details, but once or twice when I put the front grip back, it did not interlock properly with moving parts in the main grip. This prevented shotgun from cocking at all, as after breaking it there was some kind of blockage.

Well
thats a really concrete definition of the MadMax!
Well done^^

It seems like youre the man for HudsonMadMax questions...

Well... I got this little problem with mine:
I break the gun: two clicks
Then putting th ecartridges in, closing the gun
and then AIMING WITH ONE HAND! I just hold the madmax at its pistol grip
then I try to fire the FRONT trigger... nothing
it feels just like i didnt cock the trigger
But when holding the gun again with two hands (gripping the front grip and the barrel pressing the barrel a little but upwards, just like you normally do when holding a gun at its foregrip)
CLICK .... it fires...

This only happens with the front trigger
holding it with two hands is no problem, the second trigger works fine as well, but if I don't grip the barrel, the foretrigger wont fire...

Any idea what that could be?

I mean: I want to fire it like Mad Max does (sometimes)
Its not called MadMax for nothing

BadBean wrote:

But when holding the gun again with two hands (gripping the front grip and the barrel pressing the barrel a little but upwards, just like you normally do when holding a gun at its foregrip)

Hmm, this sounds familiar to the second problem I mentioned before. When grip does not lock properly, it will not cock the hammer... but I do not remember why it happened. Tried a few times now, could not get the same problem again. Front trigger should be the first one to cock anyway, so it's something different maybe.

Try this:
- cock shotgun, lock barrels
- remove front grip completely
- try to shoot with one hand now

That should tell if problem is with grip.

I like MadMax, too =) one of cool things with models that some of us admit to do, is to watch movies while holding a replica of what the movie hero has ;-)

Hey thanks! I will try it tomorrow and will report then!

Yeah, I'm only into weapons, because I am such a Film Freak!
Wich character used what gun?

I now own a Hudson MadMax - Of course Max uses it in the movies! What else! Feels great, just the outfit is missing... I now have the gun and the dog (i dont have a dog because of madmax thats just a joke!)

Then I got the Kokusai S&W M29 because I am an even bigger Dirty Harry Fan! unfortunately the 6,5inch version only exists by Tanaka wich doesnt look as nice as the Kokusai

Yeah and well... I own a Beretta M9 by Metal Y.T. Corps... The Beretta is used in almost every action movie

OK

I tried it now a few times:

cocking gun, locking barrels, removing front grip completely, fire one haned

And voila... it works fine

But what does that mean now?

Thanks for the photos smootik.

It seems to me that if all three caps are seated at the same depth in the cartridge and that the three detonator pins in each barrel are level, then all three caps should ignite at the same time.
I'm intrigued by this one, there must be a relatively simple answer to this

If one cap is sitting higher than the other two, then it'll be struck first and ignite before the others.
What could cause the caps to sit at different levels
Dirt or cap residue in the holes the caps sit in...
Cartridge moulded with holes at different depths...
Caps not being pushed in deep enough to touch bottom...

Are the Detonator Pins removeable from barrel If they are it would be easier to measure each for height.
Could the plate the three pins are cast onto be positioned out of level in the barrel
Has the tip of one or more pin corroded away or has dirt built up on it's tip

It may be possible to check that each cap sits exactly the same distance from each pin by plugging each hole in the cartridge with plasticine, inserting the cartridge into the barrel and closing the gun.
Pull the trigger, then take the cartridge out.
Using a depth guage you should be able to measure the depth of each depression in the 3 plasticine plugs.
If all's level, each measurement should be the same.

Your experience of accidentally igniting a cap while removing a live one goes to show how potentially dangerous they can be.
Even pushing a live cap into a cartridge with something other than the loading tool could ignite the cap if struck hard enough. I'd imagine a stick or a rod could be shot out of a cartridge with some force if the cap was to ignite.
Eye protection is certainly a good idea, making sure the cartridge and loading tool is facing away from your face during loading is good practice too.

Yes the detonator pins should be removable, but I didn't try it yet...

I dont think your speculations fit to my problem (if I don't grip the barrel, the foretrigger wont fire/hamemr doesnt jump forward) because I tried it several times with nonloaded cartridges.



To the MadMax owners: How often should I clean the detonator pins, so they wont get damaged?

BadBean wrote:

Yes the detonator pins should be removable, but I didn't try it yet...

I dont think your speculations fit to my problem (if I don't grip the barrel, the foretrigger wont fire/hamemr doesnt jump forward) because I tried it several times with nonloaded cartridges.



To the MadMax owners: How often should I clean the detonator pins, so they wont get damaged?

I always clean the detonator pins in every modelgun I fire once the session is over. Smoke residue is very corrosive and must be cleaned away without delay.
If left overnight, or a few days, the brown residue you can see left from firing will have started to corrode the metal it covers.

It probably won't apply to your shotgun as it uses an "Open cartridge" but silicone or lithium greases can leave a build up on detonator pins and chambers that can cause cartridges to stick and jam after only about 60 shots.
If I'm firing my MP40 e.g. I need to clean the Det.Pin after 2 magazines to avoid jamming.

You're correct BadBean, my speculation about getting all three caps to fire simultaneously didn't answer your question about one handed firing.
Please accept my apologies, my thoughts about those caps and det.pins ran away with me

As I don't own a model shotgun, but I did have a real 12guage double barrelled shotgun, I can only suggest...
If you hold your gun single handed, is there any free play between the stock and barrels Is there any hint the barrels are dropping slightly
Holding the gun firmly with both hands would tighten up any play possibly

Yes there is a verly little gap between barrel and stock, about 1 milimeter...
And holding it both handed might tighten up any possibility...
That sounds logical, but doesnt change tha fact I want to dire it both handed xD

I now realized:
sometimes when i use the first trigger first, it works one handed, sometimes not
the second trigger always works
if i use the second trigger first (one handed) the fore trigger always works (when used after the behind trigger)!

Cerwyn wrote:

Are the Detonator Pins removeable from barrel

They don't seem to be removable :-/ I cleaned them by washing barrel with water, and swabbing with cotton stick.

Idea to use plasticine is a great one! :-D I will use it to see if there is some difference.

My current theory is that when the first cap ignites it pushes cartridge slightly away (?) so the other caps are not compressed enough. I need to do many more experiments to complete this troubleshooting, at the moment source of problem is too unclear :-/

I just found out how to remove the detonator pins!

You need to remove all screws from the bottom of the barrel, remove those parts (little piece that holds the foregrip and the other that ejects the shells)
Than there is a little gap between the plastic barrel and the metal inlay (at the end of the barrel that continues to the grip)

Put a screw wrench in, push, and then you can remove the complete inner metal bar out of the plstic barrel.

It is much more simple that it sounds with my germanglish ^^

When I'm finished cleaning I will make a photo!

Cool! Please take pictures of the process, it will be very useful :-)