Replica Glock Problem

G'day,
I am new to the forums so please bear with me as I may ask things already covered. (I have tried my best to check if anything else was posted first but couldn't find anything)

Let me start off by explaining my problem. I live in Australia and work as an armed security guard. I carry a Glock model 23 or 19 depending on what job I am working. These weapons belong to the companies and as such I cannot take them home, and this is where my problem starts.
I love to train, I think it makes me a lot better at my job and definitely more comfortable when in certain situations as I know I can handle myself. The problem is training with a firearm is very expensive and therefore I cannot do it as often as I would like. So I decided to buy a replica Glock 19 or 23, whichever I could find. Turns out I can't find any that aren't blank firing or BB guns which are both illegal in Australia.

So I assume I will need a custom replica made, same size and dimensions as the real steal. It will also need to be able to chamber dummy 9mm/.40 rounds (depending on the model made), cycle through said dummy rounds, lock up when the magazine is empty, dry fire, and not fire anything.
I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction to have this made? Or even if anyone would be able to make this? I have seen some peoples work here and it is quite amazing!

Thank you,
James

Hi James,

Depends on which state you're in - if you're in WA / Qld / SA then it's best that you get yourself a Denix to save all the hassles...and if you're in other states: since you're already a security guard so then it shouldn't be a problem to get yourself a H Class licence and then a cheaper pre-owned Glock 17A a year later (you can only get yourself a .22 rimfire or .177 airgun on your first year) - says so because real steel is more legal than replicas in other states...

Nowadays you can't do too many things in Australia (be it cars / guns and other walks of life) unfortunately...your requirements make your gun something in a H Collector Licence and I don't think you want to be bothered with it...

jim wrote:

Hi James,

Depends on which state you're in - if you're in WA / Qld / SA then it's best that you get yourself a Denix to save all the hassles...and if you're in other states: since you're already a security guard so then it shouldn't be a problem to get yourself a H Class licence and then a cheaper pre-owned Glock 17A a year later (you can only get yourself a .22 rimfire or .177 airgun on your first year) - says so because real steel is more legal than replicas in other states...

Nowadays you can't do too many things in Australia (be it cars / guns and other walks of life) unfortunately...your requirements make your gun something in a H Collector Licence and I don't think you want to be bothered with it...

Hi Jim,

First off, great name
Secondly, I am in QLD, I own a denix Colt 1911, and hate it. If I could blow it up I would. I only keep it so I can do muscle memory training, which on a denix, sucks. I did breifly have a Keystone Arsenal Colt 1911 which I imported and it was great, but I sold it to pay for a new piece of work gear...saddening day...

Getting a handgun licence is a pain in QLD, and I can't say I would be able to fulfil the criteria of going to the minimum number of shoots per year. Which is why I am enquiring about a custom built replica. I don't need or want something I can shoot, I need something I can practice drills with, and use as an instructing tool for others (signing out a weapon every time you need to show students how to clear a jam etc gets annoying...)

I would be able to use this in both a home training environment and for my mates use who runs a security training company. Believe me if I get a good quality replica that can do what I specified above, he will most likely try and buy 4 or 5 off the person who made it.

As for my requests making it a Collectors Licence problem, not necessarily true, I have had constant correspondence with the QLD weapons licensing branch and after explaining what I wanted they have confirmed that it would be only a replica and not put on any type of licence. I did my homework before coming here haha

Cheers for the ideas though

James

Hello James

Welcome to the Forum

If you are, as you said, legally entitled to own a Replica without too many legal issues, then something like a Tanaka Glock Modelgun would suit your needs perfectly.

Tanaka's Glocks are 1:1 scale, accurate models that function and strip down exactly like the real thing. They're made of Heavy Weight plastics (HWABS) with Zinc Alloy parts. Intended as Cap-Firing models that "fire" cartridges, cycle, eject and rechamber as per the real thing.
Wouldn't something like this be ideally suited for training purposes

Are you able to import replicas into QLD from Japan

Cerwyn wrote:

Tanaka's Glocks are 1:1 scale

One thing to note is that Tanaka Glock is lighter than a real one. This might influence muscle training.

James wrote:

...Let me start off by explaining my problem. I live in Australia and work as an armed security guard. I carry a Glock model 23 or 19 depending on what job I am working. These weapons belong to the companies and as such I cannot take them home, and this is where my problem starts.
I love to train, I think it makes me a lot better at my job and definitely more comfortable when in certain situations as I know I can handle myself.

Hi James, are you sure you are going down the right path regarding firearms training? I would hope that you work as part of a team and as such you train as a team. If you feel uncomfortable in certain (perceived) situations you need work this out with the help of your team and professional training. Trying to do this on you own allows errors to creep into your procedures as there is no one to cast a critical eye over what you are doing. What are your employers views on you doing your own thing??
Sorry to be a wet blanket but I worked in a similar field back in the day and have seen first hand the results of guys deviating from protocols and doing there own thing - luckily only in training situations..

Mike

Cerwyn wrote:

Hello James

Welcome to the Forum

If you are, as you said, legally entitled to own a Replica without too many legal issues, then something like a Tanaka Glock Modelgun would suit your needs perfectly.

Tanaka's Glocks are 1:1 scale, accurate models that function and strip down exactly like the real thing. They're made of Heavy Weight plastics (HWABS) with Zinc Alloy parts. Intended as Cap-Firing models that "fire" cartridges, cycle, eject and rechamber as per the real thing.
Wouldn't something like this be ideally suited for training purposes

Are you able to import replicas into QLD from Japan

Cerwyn I would love a Tanaka glock 17, but unfortunately they are cap fire models, which are illegal in Queensland at least. If I could find someone to be able to make it not fire, and declare it as a replica when shipping it in it would be fine!
Quick question about it though, can it use inert 9mm rounds instead of the cartridges supplied with the gun? (the cartridges are technically illegal)
I can import the replica from anywhere

metradio wrote:

[

Hi James, are you sure you are going down the right path regarding firearms training? I would hope that you work as part of a team and as such you train as a team. If you feel uncomfortable in certain (perceived) situations you need work this out with the help of your team and professional training. Trying to do this on you own allows errors to creep into your procedures as there is no one to cast a critical eye over what you are doing. What are your employers views on you doing your own thing??
Sorry to be a wet blanket but I worked in a similar field back in the day and have seen first hand the results of guys deviating from protocols and doing there own thing - luckily only in training situations..

Mike

Mike, it always depends on the job as to whether or not I am part of a team. Cash in transit work in plain clothes is a one man job, armored is usually three.
Not a wet blanket at all, allow me to explain
The training I do on my own is the same as I would expect my work mates to do, and make them do at least once a week. Muscle memory and stoppage drills are what I do every morning before work. Since starting doing the muscle memory drills my reaction speed time for getting two rounds into the center mass of the perceived threat it 0.726 seconds, down from 1.2 seconds. The things I do I am qualified to teach, so I believe I do them at a high enough standard to do alone.
Employers views are less than desirable, they don't care if you only do the minimum requirements each year to still hold a license. I figure if I am going to be trusted with a weapon and therefore others lives I must be highly confident that I am the best I can be at what I may be called on to do. Constant training is what keeps me that way.

Cheers,
James

If you are that serious what's wrong with joining up a shooting club to shoot 'real' gun? Afterall those will be the one you would use (touch wood) when SHTF? We are talking about life and death situation here aren't we?

modelgunfan wrote:

If you are that serious what's wrong with joining up a shooting club to shoot 'real' gun? Afterall those will be the one you would use (touch wood) when SHTF? We are talking about life and death situation here aren't we?

Australian gun laws suck my good man. When SHTF I am well able to take care of myself, I am not worried about that, all I want is a highly realistic replica training weapon. I don't want a live weapon in my house because I cannot practice dry firing etc with it easily.
The drills I practice with my service weapon are not allowed for normal ranges and require myself a another to hire out the field for the night, when no one else is around, so it does not make financial sense to buy my own weapon, as it will not lower my costs.
Not only that but a Glock model 19 is illegal to own by a private citizen with a normal handgun licence, barrel length does not meet requirements, and .40 a pain to get a licence for, not to mention I wouldn’t be able to get a 23 because of the same problem I previously stated.

Thanks for the thought though

Cheers,
James

FYI James - I was a Sydneysider and it's basically a different world to Qld in certain aspects ...

For getting the .40 & .45 pistols I think you need to participate in metallic sihouette discipline (also as you mentioned at least 12 active shoots per year)...

Try to ask your local shop for a Glock 17 with red frame (dummy gun for practice only) - otherwise full metal Wa Shan G17 (sorry no compact G19 nor G23) - nowadays they're supposed to be dummies only...good luck with your search!

jim wrote:

FYI James - I was a Sydneysider and it's basically a different world to Qld in certain aspects ...

For getting the .40 & .45 pistols I think you need to participate in metallic sihouette discipline (also as you mentioned at least 12 active shoots per year)...

Try to ask your local shop for a Glock 17 with red frame (dummy gun for practice only) - otherwise full metal Wa Shan G17 (sorry no compact G19 nor G23) - nowadays they're supposed to be dummies only...good luck with your search!

It is indeed haha
QLD is better

That is correct, but I would have to wait a year before I could even consider getting my Cat H license...considering I want this ASAP its not really a path I wish to persue. (not to mention the missus is not to fond of guns in the house )
If you mean the the real steal glock with red slide, I tried that, big no no from the Police, if however you mean an Asp training gun, I have one but only use it for self defence training with students, it is pretty useless for everything else

I was looking into a Wa Shan, but cannot find anywhere selling? Perhaps you could point me in the correct direction?

Thanks Jim!

Ps I have PM'd you

I have a brand new Wa Shan for sale - take a look and if it's suitable for your requirements let me know.


https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2421-modelguns-parts-for-sale

GZ22 wrote:

I have a brand new Wa Shan for sale - take a look and if it's suitable for your requirements let me know.


https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2421-modelguns-parts-for-sale

It would be perfect if it wasnt a cap firing model, they are illegal where I live

Cheers,
James

Hi James,

Aussie gun laws suck....!!'' On a scale of 1 - 10 (ten being good) they rate minus 40 in my not so humble opinion!

You might try talking to GunCity in Christchurch:
http://www.guncity.co.nz/xurl/function/prodlist/filterflags/0/pointer/0/searchtext/676C6F636B/grpid/0/content.html

They might be able to remove the guts from a bb gun and modify it to make a non-firing dummy gun for you (which they do for some guns to make them legal to own without a licence in New Zealand). ''

Being an authorised dealer they'll know the laws and complications for Australians and what can and can't be done.
Mind you, they are NOT cheap - but always very helpful.''


Kiwgunner





[b]

kiwigunner wrote:

Hi James,

Aussie gun laws suck....!!'' On a scale of 1 - 10 (ten being good) they rate minus 40 in my not so humble opinion!

You might try talking to GunCity in Christchurch:
http://www.guncity.co.nz/xurl/function/prodlist/filterflags/0/pointer/0/searchtext/676C6F636B/grpid/0/content.html

They might be able to remove the guts from a bb gun and modify it to make a non-firing dummy gun for you (which they do for some guns to make them legal to own without a licence in New Zealand). ''

Being an authorised dealer they'll know the laws and complications for Australians and what can and can't be done.
Mind you, they are NOT cheap - but always very helpful.''


Kiwgunner

My good man I am sorry but I disagree, minus 50 at least -_-

That sounds like a fantastic idea! I shall do that right away!
Any idea how not cheap they might be? The missus might be unhappy with me spending more on a replica than on her

Thanks!
James

You're right about the minus score - I was feeling generous! ''

No idea about Gun City prices. My Hudson Thompson cost me NZ$1500 in May compared to NZ$900 form Japan (plus shipping, say $100) and NZ$850 (plus shipping) from Europe. But then again, Hudson prices have just skyrocketed of late - particiularly for M1A1 Thompsons.

Call Gun City and speak with Ferg - he's their replica sales guy and he's very approachable (most, but not all of their staff are!).
Mention my name if you like, and say I spoke highly of him!
They may or may not be able to help, but worth a crack mate! ''

Cheers,

Kiwigunner

kiwigunner wrote:

You're right about the minus score - I was feeling generous! ''

No idea about Gun City prices. My Hudson Thompson cost me NZ$1500 in May compared to NZ$900 form Japan (plus shipping, say $100) and NZ$850 (plus shipping) from Europe. But then again, Hudson prices have just skyrocketed of late - particiularly for M1A1 Thompsons.

Call Gun City and speak with Ferg - he's their replica sales guy and he's very approachable (most, but not all of their staff are!).
Mention my name if you like, and say I spoke highly of him!
They may or may not be able to help, but worth a crack mate! ''

Cheers,

Kiwigunner

If it cuts down on my training costs I can live with spending a little extra money haha

Oh bummer, I sent an email...oh well I will incorporate your name in the following correspondence!
If they can't help not all is lost, I'll find a way

Cheers,
James

Let us all know how you get on!
Good luck & happy hunting!

Kiwgunner

kiwigunner wrote:

Aussie gun laws suck....!!'' On a scale of 1 - 10 (ten being good) they rate minus 40 in my not so humble opinion!

Being an authorised dealer they'll know the laws and complications for Australians and what can and can't be done.
Mind you, they are NOT cheap - but always very helpful.''

This is part of the reasons why I leave the down under for good ...and I don't think our dear Kiwi neighbour can sort out such stupid gun laws of ours (even we have problems sorting it out ourselves )...so anyway good luck!

Brand new Wa Shan G17 (along with their other models) shall only be made as dummies so please follow this lead ...

WaShan decided (or was forced) to no longer make cap-firing models?

jim wrote:

Brand new Wa Shan G17 (along with their other models) shall only be made as dummies so please follow this lead ...

Thanks Jim! Any idea where I would be able to buy a new one that is dummy only? Not having much luck

Cheers,
James

smootik wrote:

WaShan decided (or was forced) to no longer make cap-firing models?

Forced - full metal models can only be dummies (replace the detachable dummy firing block with functional one "available as options under the table" at user's own risk)...

JamesH wrote:

jim wrote:

Brand new Wa Shan G17 (along with their other models) shall only be made as dummies so please follow this lead ...

Thanks Jim! Any idea where I would be able to buy a new one that is dummy only? Not having much luck

Cheers,
James

Tough - as I'd mentioned can't get new ones in HK now and Cerwyn having extremely negative experience attempting to buy from Taiwan (but let me stress the majority of Taiwanese are nice)...

JamesH wrote:

GZ22 wrote:

I have a brand new Wa Shan for sale - take a look and if it's suitable for your requirements let me know.


https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2421-modelguns-parts-for-sale

It would be perfect if it wasnt a cap firing model, they are illegal where I live

Cheers,
James

Ah, no worries James, I'm sorry you're not allowed to keep models like this. I hope that you find what you need. Thanks for looking though.