Muzzle Flash... AGAIN!...!

I've come across 'Flash Paper' as used by pyrotechnic special effects companys and wondered if anyone has tried it to get either more smoke, or hopefully, some flash from the muzzle?
I did e-mail the firm concerned, but got no response.

I wondered if cutting circles of this paper, then inserting them (either singly or in multiples) on top of the cap might produce some effect?

I'm assuming a lot really, I'm hoping that the spark from the struck cap would be enough to ignite the paper?

http://www.hfmgroup.com/professionalsupplies/flashguns.html

Any ideas lads?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Claymore

One of the guys on the forum (cant remenber who, sorry! ) gave an explantion as to the heat etc generated from magnesium and the suchlike and after that i stopped thinking about using the stuff and ai have 2 tubs. The heat and the extra pressure could cause horible problems so i am staying away.

Post by gavin

could work it would be intresting to see if it would work i think it was radback that did the magnisium thing there was a tread on it

Hiya Claymore,

Yes there was a lot of very informative and knowledgable stuff given then.
Do you think this 'Flash Paper' is made using magnezium and such like?
I'm disappointed that the Pyro company didn't even bother replying so I've no more info on what the stuff's made of even.



Member GZ22 put a lot of information on the 'Boom or Pfft' thread which scared me enough to stop considering magnezium powders, bbq starter blocks and such like!
So far, about the only thing I've seen that almost works is a very light spray of WD40 on the detonator pin, a little inside the rounds (but only if there's no rubber 0-rings) and maybe a light squirt over the rounds when they're in the mag.
Only trouble is, is that too much gums up the pin, drips all over your shirt, or the flame coming out of the breach almost singes your eyebrows!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by gavin

does wd40 work is there an acyual flme that comes out of the barrel

From my own experience, extra smoke is the first thing you'll notice.
Slightly more sparks too, but as yet, I've not seen flame from the barrel of my MP40, nor my P38 pistol.
My experience with flame was when firing my MGC Thompson. It's a blocked barrel anyway so I knew there wouldn't be any muzzle flash, or smoke out of there.
What we did get was more smoke from the ejection port, as hoped for, accompanied by an unexpected lick of red flame from the port as the build up of WD40 caught fire.
It might have looked pretty impressive for an instant, but thank Gawd it wasn't a plastic gun!
When you get it about right, you'll end up with something like modelguns.co.uk 's modified MP40. Have a look at his video pages. Although Jay is reluctant to let on exactly what he does to achieve the extra smoke, he does mention careful and light use of WD40 both in the cartridges and on the det. pin.
Warnings have come loud and clear from far more knowledgable members than I that WD40 shouldn't be used in carts using rubber 0-rings as it perishes rubber. I've used it with no problems in Marushin carts, and of course just on the det. pin of my Thompson. I think the red flame resulted from too much WD40 being sprayed into the drum mag, and on the tips of the assembled rounds.
I've yet to find anything that'll produce a realistic flame/flash from the muzzle.
Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

I've used magnesium in all my guns and haven't noticed much effect on their condition. I haven't used it regularly tho, just once or twice.

Right then Rizzo, what's the secret in using this stuff safely then?
What type of magnesium do you use?
How much?
Where do you put it?
What's it look like when the gun fires?
Where do you get it from?

Have you a video of one of your guns using it by any chance please?

Thanks!
Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

- I use magnesium powder. Got it from an online chemistry shop in a 50g pot. No where near finishing it yet. I think it cost about £3... not much.

- I put inside the cap when it's seated in the cartridge. I do this on my MGC 1911. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my MGC M9, the flash only exits the breach and not the barrel, which isn't too good. If I put a little dusting of Mg inside the barrel of the S&W M10, then it also achieves a large flash, although it's very white compared to the 1911 'flame' colour

1911 with magnesium-





M9 with magnesium (comes out of breach despite being open barrel )




http://rizzomedia.com/video/1911.wmv Link to a vid of the 1911. Not as polished as the M9 one. Thanks for the feedback, cerwyn!

Hiya Rizzo

Thanks for all your replies, and BTW, the feedback was well deserved.

Now then, you wouldn't like to gimme a clue as to which on-line chemistry shop it was would you?

I promise, faithfully, that if my gun melts, blows up, or either my budgie, or worse still, my girlfriend gets singed or incinerated, I won't hold you responsible

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

hahah, it was over a year ago...


but I had an email from then a week ago about new developments

http://www.kno3.com/product.asp?itemid=13 It's £7.20, so more than i remembered, sorry

Also, it leaves a fair bit of residue- you'll need to thoroughly clean the cartridges before they can be reused. Also be careful where you point the gun (as you should always, and i know you probably are) but the flashes can get up to a foot long, depending on the powder and type of gun. The only injury i've ever sustained from using it is a tiny piece of burning magnesium landing on my hand after firing. It hurt a bit, but left no scarring.

Last edited by rizzo on Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post by gavin

wow that second 1911 picture is amazing cerwyn i would have loved to have seen the flame from your thompson ill try the wd40 trick later on as i have fixed my beretta now(finaly found my allen keys) it might be the barrel on the m9 when using the magnesium as i have noticed the barrel is very closed it might be difrent on the m9 as i have a 96

Post by rizzo

Yeah gavin i know waht you mean, although it is sort of open, it's quite crowded in there, what with the detonator and barrel bar thing... damn 9mm

Post by gavin

yeah it probably worked better on the 1911 with it being a 45

Thanks Rizzo, I'll take a look at that site now.
Also for the cleaning and safety tips! I'll get my girlfriend to fire them off first then, just in case I get burnt

Hey Gavin, go very sparingly with the WD40, if the things dripping wet it won't work at all A very light spray is a good start, let it dry off a bit before you start shooting.
I've only used it on SMG's not pistols, and bearing in mind they have longer barrels you could well get better smoke effect than I did probably by being very sparing with it.
If at first you don't succeed, try a little bit more...
Did you look at modelguns.co.uk's modified MP40 video?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

If you guys are going to use WD40 just be aware that there are some differences between the older versions of the spray WD40 formula/propelent. The older cans of WD40 where far better than the newest WD that is available today. I would still recomend looking at other light spray on oils that just might be a better choice. That being said, I don't use any WD40 on my modelguns just grease and silicone spray.

As for the flash of the Magnisum burning up your ABS barrel, I really doubt that it would as the magnisum burns up in an instant and rarely does any sort of damage what so ever to the plastic barrels when fired.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by rizzo

Exactly, I've not observed any acrid smell which you would associate with burning plastic, except the usual gunpowder smell after firing modelguns with magnesium.

Post by Mark

Well, for the most part I think that since there is no projectile involved, that the magnisum has such a large volume of air to burn in that it cannot transfer heat to the barrel walls. So, no plastic is harmed in the production of this film.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by gavin

i just tried this but only a little bit of wd40 there was no flame but a lot of smoke went trough all 14 rounds without a jam mis fire or not feeding right

Hey Gavin, I'm glad the WD40 trick worked, at least as far as extra smoke goes!
14 rounds probably won't create enough dirt to start causing jamming. I'd put 36 through my Thompson using a drum, but hit snags then when the 30rd stick mag was being used. I had used too much WD40 though so next time I'll obviously use less. The red flame was most likely caused by build up of drying and gumming WD40 that got so hot in the det chamber it just caught fire.
I wouldn't fancy that regularly!

Mark, I dont use WD40 as a lubricant any more, I use silicone grease and sprays now following good advice from yourself and others on my ABS guns and on the 0-ringed carts. I use Browning Gun Oil on my metal guns. The WD40 is purely for more smoke effect and it seems to work quite well.

I've ordered some Magnesium powder too.. I'll try it in my Grease Gun as it's a nice short barrel, if it works, the MP40 will be next I think.
If it works, I'll try making a video clip to post on here. Don't expect anything like Rizzo's though!
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by gavin

the grease gun will probably work well due to it being a 45 will you be making any videos of it rizzo ive been thinking that because the beretta barrell i almost half open using too much magnesium would cause too much presure mabye if you use just half or a third of what you where using

Last edited by gavin on Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post by Mark

cerwyn wrote:

I've ordered some Magnesium powder too.. I'll try it in my Grease Gun as it's a nice short barrel, if it works, the MP40 will be next I think.
If it works, I'll try making a video clip to post on here. Don't expect anything like Rizzo's though!

I can't remember where the link for Rizzo's video was located at. The grease gun will be great I think. Due again, to its short barrel. Although, I wonder just how the Hudson cartridges will react to the mag powder..

Here's Rizzo's site: www.rizzomedia.com/modelguns.htm


I use MGC rounds in my Grease Gun, they've never let me down in it. I haven't even tried the 6 Hudson rounds that came with the gun as everybody seems to have such a low opinion of their performance.
I hope it works, I'm sure it'll add a 'little something' to a great performing little SMG...
I'll keep you posted!

Cerwyn

Post by Mark

Geez Rizzo! The .45 sounds great! Did you get the microphone really close to the muzzle or what? I like the .45's video better than the Beretta's due to the fact that you fired the .45 more Pretty "artsy"video I would say on the beretta video though. (I would have shot it more!) But, I like it!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by rizzo

Hehehe, they're both dubbed I'm afriad, although in real life, the .45 does sound very meaty (just sounded a bit poor on the microphone is all)