People's views on Deactivated firearms

I didn't know where to start this topic as there isn't a specific deactivated guns thread, but I just wanted to get an idea of what modelgun enthusiasts think about the deactivated guns available.
I found an advert for a Glock 17 while surfing the other day and it made me think....It is a real gun, but has been deactivated to prevent it from firing, yet it is still 100% legal to buy and more so, it it fully exempt from the VCR bill...??!
That struck me as strange.... Joe Public isn't allowed to buy a plastic /abs toy gun (airsoft or PFC) because it looks too much like a real gun, but he can happily go and buy one which isn't a copy, but the real deal (obviously non firing). Odd.

Anyway, as mentioned before, I am fairly new to the world of modelguns, and my current collection is very very small. I tend not to fire my modelguns often because I prefer to keep them as a show piece or wall display. I am slowly becoming interested in the Deactivated guns that are out there as they would serve for the same purpose, except the advantage is that they are real.

What are people's thoughts on this? Does anyone collect deacts?

I have mixed feelings towards deacts.
On one hand they are real weapons. If you see/hold one of them, you KNOW it was a live, firing weapon, not a piece made for display or for fun. It does "enhance" my liking them.
On the other hand they are modified or as some put it: mutilated. Is is a pain to see a museum-quality, well preserved gun that has to be partially destroyed.

I agree that UK law is very strange. Blank-firers and deacts vs modelguns and airsoft. In Poland it is more complicated, as we are not quite allowed to keep deacts (they need to be deactivated&certified locally for a high fee, plus registered at Police, and you practically cannot remove it from house) and blank-firers are ok only up to 6mm caliber (7.62mm or 9mm requires normal weapon permit). Import of deacts is extremely hard from what I've heard. A few years ago a guy imported deactivated M60 from US. He thought he had all papers, but the thing was confiscated at the border. It took him a long time in the court to get it back.

It is interesting to note that Polish Army sells off surplus/old equipment very cheap, including older models of weapons such as PPSh-41 (sic!) They are fully functional so you cannot buy as deactivated, you need a weapon permit. I remember from 2000-2002 that those were exported in larger quantities to collectors in Western countries, where it was much easier to legally purchase and deactivate those.

Id be wary of investing too much money in deacts at the moment as the government left them out of the VCR act for a reason ( and not a good one )
At present there is a consultation going on between various bodies and the upshot is that the police and gov want to "do away" with what they are calling "old Spec " deacts ...old spec is anything deactivated before some point in 1995 ...
By do away I mean they want older spec deactivations brought up to current specs and this may come at the expense of owner.

If the Glock was deactivated after 1995 then likey to be unaffected ....but who knows about the future ??


DOC

p.s personally I dislike deacts as they have taken a wonderful piece of engineering ( forget the guns actual reason for being ) and indeed carelessly (in most cases) mutilated them ...like having an AC cobra chopped in half for display .

There's more discussion on De-acs here...

https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/general-firearms-discussions-f13/government-to-ban-de-acts-t1119.htm

I've moved the topic into General Firearms rather than Modelguns just to keep 'em seperated.

Not including De-activated firearms under the "Replica Imitation Firearms" heading did seem very strange when the VCRA was implemented.
I've read recently that the Government views a De-activated gun as a "Non-Gun"... i.e. having been rendered incapable of ever firing anything again. In their eyes, a De-ac is not a Replica Imitation Firearm, but a "Non-Gun" so doesn't fall into the same category

As DOC says though, things ARE likely to change, certainly as regards pre-'95 spec de-acs.

I wasn't aware what they did to firearms in order to deactivate them, but I looked it up and man, you're definately right Doc by saying they get mutilated!

Shocking. So this is the reason for pre '95 guns to go through another modification, because before 1995 the deactivation process wasn't as extreme as it is now.

I may need to re-think this new found interest of mine....

my view on this subject is going to repeat itself in many threads I can see.

I find the whole thing a bit silly.. because I can take a deactivated weapon (as well as you can!) and I can get it to fire again using .22 bullets easily... its not rocket science.

you can machine the firing pin.... so on and so forth.. I wont go into it as I am a law obiding person.. Recently there was a millioneer who had done just this for laughs.... he was then selling on the weapons to kids etc

then that leaves me on the subject of ammo... well the goverment has made it harder to make your own...but not entirely impossible.. you can still buy blanks without a FAC and then you can easily take the primer caps out and create your own bullet..... you can buy everything else from a gun shop legally.... now how is this going to stop criminals.... you just need to look and you will have your answers...

I dont think the VCR bill has done any good.... I really think that they should have you register in a simular fashion to a FAC and get a licence.... this is easy.... and can be done cheaply... you can add them on like a section 2 (shotgun) cert and buy and sell them legally to other people... now I personally think this is better than going down the route they did.. ie re enactors, theators etc.... (spellings bad when I get heated over this subject) but if they did that it would make me and alot of others feel better and we can then go about our buisness happily with no fuss.... and they would of course be able to account for primers etc.. making the illegal gun trade even more difficult..... (note difficult not impossible!) so that is my 2pence worth....

Deacts are kind of a moot point for those of us in the US, unless you're talking dummy receivers. According to the BATF, anything that was once intended to be a firearm will always be a firearm, even if you melt it down and make an elephant-shaped ashtray out of it. Pretty lame if you ask me. All the guns they melt down in the buyback programs or other seizures... I'd love to see some of them made legally inert and made available as movie props to working professionals.

jonrms wrote:

my view on this subject is going to repeat itself in many threads I can see.

I find the whole thing a bit silly.. because I can take a deactivated weapon (as well as you can!) and I can get it to fire again using .22 bullets easily... its not rocket science.

you can machine the firing pin.... so on and so forth.. I wont go into it as I am a law obiding person.. Recently there was a millioneer who had done just this for laughs.... he was then selling on the weapons to kids etc

then that leaves me on the subject of ammo... well the goverment has made it harder to make your own...but not entirely impossible.. you can still buy blanks without a FAC and then you can easily take the primer caps out and create your own bullet..... you can buy everything else from a gun shop legally.... now how is this going to stop criminals.... you just need to look and you will have your answers...

I don't think that openly admitting to being able to re-activate de-acs easily is wise on an open forum such as this jon...

We all know how ludicrous the current VCRA is, but it is current legislation whether we like it or not. The Govnmt are now discussing banning all pre '95 spec de-acs because they're under the impression they're "so easily" converted to fire live ammo. As things stand we're fortunate to be able to own our replica and modelguns so please let's keep discussion sensible and law abiding.

We all have our views and opinions about the VCRA, let's not fuel the Government into banning ALL replica guns.

Cerwyn wrote:

jonrms wrote:

my view on this subject is going to repeat itself in many threads I can see.

I find the whole thing a bit silly.. because I can take a deactivated weapon (as well as you can!) and I can get it to fire again using .22 bullets easily... its not rocket science.

you can machine the firing pin.... so on and so forth.. I wont go into it as I am a law obiding person.. Recently there was a millioneer who had done just this for laughs.... he was then selling on the weapons to kids etc

then that leaves me on the subject of ammo... well the goverment has made it harder to make your own...but not entirely impossible.. you can still buy blanks without a FAC and then you can easily take the primer caps out and create your own bullet..... you can buy everything else from a gun shop legally.... now how is this going to stop criminals.... you just need to look and you will have your answers...

I don't think that openly admitting to being able to re-activate de-acs easily is wise on an open forum such as this jon...

We all know how ludicrous the current VCRA is, but it is current legislation whether we like it or not. The Govnmt are now discussing banning all pre '95 spec de-acs because they're under the impression they're "so easily" converted to fire live ammo. As things stand we're fortunate to be able to own our replica and modelguns so please let's keep discussion sensible and law abiding.

We all have our views and opinions about the VCRA, let's not fuel the Government into banning ALL replica guns.

I was only stating what the bbc already did... they did this to prove a point.. I was only repeating it.. I wont go into any details.. but for those who are going to commit a crime you can easily pick up a working real pistol easily with a certin amount of ammo... now thats where the goverment needs to crack down on.. not on (sorry to say.) toy or model replicas or blanks or even deactivated..... believe me its alot of work and you do have to be crafty and have in depth knowledge of this..... but saying that by the time you did all this... you have to ask was it really worth it.

so i am not fueling the goverments views... infact I think there needs to be a big crack down on illegal firearms... heck go into bradford or london or shefield ... any major city and you can pick one up i am sure by asking a few questions. and showing the right money!

but moving on.. this is not about the vcra its that law abiding people wont do this type of stuff and its far easier to get a illegal weapon than to try to make one fire and it will cost more.... i am sure!

I have a few deactivated pistols and very nearly bought an old spec PPSH recently - a Stalingrad battle relic no less - but was outbid at the last minute .

I have 2 x 25 acp autos , a CZ and a French model - Brevette ?? They are very nice and not too badly butchered . The CZ in particular has intact bluing both sides which usually gets cream crackered by the vice during the deactivation process.

The CZ only has a rodded and slotted barrel - which is removable by the way and I believe makes this an " old spec "-
apart from that it is just about original . The rod is a tiny hardened pin which is driven through the breech end of the barrel and prevents the chambering of inert rounds .

I previously owned an old spec Makarov which had no such pin and was just slotted so could just about chamber rounds althiough the feed ramps are also usually milled away .

I like the way that these pistols are about as close to real steel as you can get but sometimes miss the working action of the likes of modelguns and blank firers. All you can do is look at them / hold them / display them and strip them . Thats it .

Some people think I am crazy for spending £600 on what is , basically a paperweight , but when it looks and feels as good as , say , a SIG P 250 I would say it justifies the expense .
http://www.dwsuk.org/shop/system/detailimage?shop_param=cid%3D3%26aid%3D105%26position%3Dposition2%26

If I could figure out how to post pics on here I would post a few to show you guys .

Carl.

Hi Phobus,

Posting photos is pretty easy if you use something like Photobucket.com

As long as you keep your photos live on the album you create, they'll remain viewable on any forum you post them on.