MGC68 MP40 ... Registry

Post by Mark

Thanks for your MP40's information!

The MGC mp40 bolts vary considerably over MGC's long production run. I have seen a few variants of the bolt face as well as the bolts body itself.

Like the bolts, the magazine housings also vary. The reasons are possibly for ease of production more than any thing else. I think that MGC used up allot of tooling over the years on the MP40's production run and they just couldn't replace the original tooling easily. So I think that they replaced it with less expensive tooling that made the magazine housings out of two pieces of stamped steel instead of the single, folded stamped housings that they used in the past.

The MGC MP40 has lots of variants that is why I started the registry..
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by schultzsgt

You can't un-block the barrel it is an insert put into the barrel when the barrel was cast. There is no way to remove it without ruining the barrel. It was put in there to prevent bullets from being fired through the barrel an to comply with the regulations at the time on non-guns
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Post by Doc

OK ...just when you think there isnt that much more to learn about MGC MP40s ....

quick quiz ....whats this



ok not much of a quiz as its two MGC end receiver caps ..


only thing is is that the left one is cast zinc ????

inside view ..



if you are familiar with MGC MP40s then you`ll know inside the end cap is the C shaped bracket with the screwed on stud that locates the recoil assembly ....well on the left one that stud is a piece of the zinc casting .

normal steel cap fitted to pistol grip



zinc one fitted to same pistol grip



now before someone suggests it is from a marushin or TRC or Nakata ...Id point out I have all of those models and the MGC one is totally different ...whats more this zinc one has not been cut altered .. machined in any way and any marks are from wear and tear the gun has had from being handled a lot .

Its also fits the MGC pistol grip 100% perfectly the same as the steel type .

Now I`ve handled some 50 + MGC MP40s and never ever seen anything like this before ....

Ok so will probably only really interest retentive chaps like Mark and myself but thought you other MGC owners may have liked a look .

By the way the rest of the gun is a standard late version common MGC MP40 .

weird no !

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Detail unknown I'll get this one soon.

Hi Mitsubishi and welcome to the forums.

Yes I had seen that MGC MP40 marking before and have been quite interested .
The stress fractures in the zinc barrel looks very similar to those I`ve seen in early metal Hudson models.

DOC

O.K. Lets give this thing a go.


1. S/N - 15630
2. Mag housing - 2 pcs stamped 3 spots
3. Bolt - Unknown
4. Ejector - offset
5. Recoil assy - 2 pcs drawn steel
6. Barrel trunion - Chromed zinc
7. Receiver - Solid tube, cut
8. Grip - Japan
9. Muzzle nut - Machined blued steel
10. Trunion screws - Black allen
11. Forearm - Black

Hi Charleshend,

Welcome to the forum and many thanks for your MGC MP40s details.

I'm sure that our experts here can give you a little background information about your particular model.
You say your Bolt details are "unknown", Could you possibly photograph it please That would help to identify it.

The following thread might give you a lot of help I think, read through this and check out bolt photos on page 2 in particular.

https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-general-discussion-f1/mp40-mgc68-t1829-15.htm

The bolt I have appears to match the one in the last photo of that set.

Also this piece does'nt appear to have a detonator. There is a steel plug
where I believe the detonator should be.

Hello charles,

Like this one

Perhaps one of the other guys can confirm this, but I believe this type of bolt is from a Firing version and the gun should have a central ejector.
Reasons for my thoughts are that the bolt face has not been ground away at a 45 deg angle, those 2 feed rails you can see are there to push cartridges from the magazine into the chamber and to hold the cartridge securely in the bolt face.
Also the 2 rails have he central slot to pass over the centrally mounted ejector.

Could it be someone's swapped bolts at some time during the gun's 40 years life?

Many of the MGC MP40s supplied to the 'States were Non-Firers, supplied without Det.Pins, plugged chambers and the cut bolts.
It IS possible to convert these back to cap firing, a complete bolt is essential, which you may have already, the chamber plug has been successfully removed in the past, Francky or Shazhib could probably find you a suitable Detonator Pin.

This might prove useful too:

Hi Cerwin

Its about time I got around to thanking you for the information you have given me. All the info confirms what
I have been able to find out about this neat little gizmo. I finally got aroun to comparing the two mp40's
I have.One being the mgc68 model and the other a new marushin kit I just put together. And the only thing I
can say is that they are not the same. Close, in some respects, but no cigar.

I found some more photos that appear to be more look-alike to what I have. The pics were part of a thread
from Schantistar last Nov 13,2009. The bolt face shown is exactly what mine looks like. The bolt is
attached to the telescoping recoil spring. Is this permanent?

Also on that page is a photo of two detonators both of which I believe would fit into the firing chamber
after the short steel plug is removed.This plug is pictured in another thread titled "Which part" Sep 06,2008.
There is also a third detonator pictured. It is a shortened version of one of the other two detonators I just
mentioned. I have the dimensions of the short det. and am about to go to a machinist and have these made
up but I need the pin length and diameters of all three detonator types.

I have read in this forum that there are people that these detonators can be obtained from and yet I cannot
find them anywhere on the internet. I'm beginning to think that I'm the only one in the US that has one of
things. Can you help me out here in obtaining the detonators? Please don't send me to Francky. I tried him and
he blew me off.

Here's my registry info:

1. S/N - 4441 (stamped on barrel and upper receiver (just above mag housing). Last 3 digits (441) on barrel nut, trigger guard and top main frame near end cap. Two digits (44) on main frame at folding stock release button. Two digits (41) on end of bolt.
2. Mag housing - 1 pc stamped, brownish pewter coloured. No spots on top but 2 spots on bottom at front of mag housing and 2 spots at rear of mag housing (just under the mag release button).
3. Bolt - Looks like type 1 but any blueing has gone. It has a stamped and folded steel extractor.
4. Ejector - Looks offset. Thick at the lower part and an offset 3/16" raised blade.
5. Recoil assy - Small diameter spring in a blued, two piece, drawn steel, telescoping tube.
6. Barrel trunion - Chromed zinc alloy.
7. Receiver - Solid tube without cut.
8. Grip - Trigger guard worn. No "Japan" or "Made in Japan", only 441 (last 3 digits of s/n)
9. Muzzle nut - Machined blued steel.
10. Trunion screws - Black 1/8" head bolts. (Allen keys didn't work, actually used a Torx bit #15 to remove them).
11. Forearm - Dark brown.

Hope I've got the details correct. Got this from Customs today - had to pay NZ$125 Duty, that's about US$89 in real money. All told it cost me US$614; guess that's an OK price???
I don't care. It's not the money....it's an MGC68 MP40!!! Don't know how many are in NZ - but there's one more now.

1. Serial # 13951
Located on the right side of resting bar.


2. The type of magazine housing:
Early: No seam, overlapped one piece-stamped steel assy.
The color of the magazine housing and parts: black (worn off and rusting – as received today)


3. The bolt type:
Type two.
Late, offset ejector slot. Dark blue finish; a milled, angle cut on the side.
Stamped steel extractor has a gold finish.



4. Ejector:
Mid/Late: offset mounted reinforced post zinc alloy.


5. Recoil assembly:
Early/mid production: small diameter spring in a blued, two piece, drawn steel, telescoping tube.

6. barrel trunion:
Mid/late: blued zinc alloy

7. Receivers:
Early "solid" tube without cut below the barrel trunion.
The receiver is smooth dark blue tint.

8. Grip assy:
Late: "Japan" on trigger guard.

9. Muzzle nut:
Mid/Late: Machined, non-threaded pressed on, typical gold color.

10. Trunnion screws:
Late: Black oxide finished Allen bolt (missing) with a large head/shank.


11. Forearm
Black.


Needless to say I have some work to do to get it up to scratch, but it appears to me to be in pretty good shape overall.

Thanks to this Forum and Scroungerm5, I now have my first MGC MP40 - as well as my Marushin version.

Cheers guys.

Very nice acquisition kiwigunner, and here's mine to share with everyone...

Yours MP40 looks great Vernon - noticed the nice "Red" dot on your safety!
Did it come like that or is it something you coloured?
And the threaded hole in your detonator chamber. Don't recall seeing that before??

Just spent this evening de-rusting the magwell - and it's looking better already. Experimenting with blue-ing to see how dark I can get it to go!
Think I might put a red dot on my MP40's charging handle.

Yeah I colored the charging handle, but it can be scratched off pretty easily if I decide not to have it. Also the threaded hole is on both side you can see through this from the drilled hole under the trunnion but not sure what the threads are for

Great to see another pair of MGC MP40s Thanks very much to you both for submitting your photos and comments.

The drilled trunnions were a modification carried out by the factory to ensure that these models could never fire anything.
Cut and split receivers, ground bolts, plugged chambers complete the "Dummy Only" mods.
It's possible that previous owners over the last 40 years since these models were produced may have gone part way to replace bolts with firing versions, fitted Det.Pins etc.

Cerwyn wrote:

The drilled trunnions were a modification carried out by the factory to ensure that these models could never fire anything.

Hi Cerwyn,

Does that mean mine even with the replaced parts still can't fire the original paper cap due to the fact that the trunnions was drilled? I was the one who bought and replaced the bolt as well as the old type detonator. The original bolt has its face grounded off at 45 degree angle and there was no detonator pin when I first got the replica.

Cheers.

Hi Vernon

Cap firing should be possible once you've fitted the appropriate bolt and Det. Pin. If I remember correctly there's mention of this in one of the many articles covering restoring MGC Display only MP40s to cap firing. (..It'll take a bit of finding but...) I'm sure the drilled trunnion allows smoke to vent out sideways.
You can get around this by plugging the drilled holes
Although this should be ok for cap firing it rules out conversion to blank firing.

Hi Vernon,

After a mornings' searching, I finally found the reference I was looking for explaining how to repair the drilled trunnion.

Open upscroll down to the bottom of page 1 continuing to page 2, look for DOCs' posts

Here's my disclosure:

1) serial number 4529, stamped only on the left side of the barrel
2) early one-piece magazine housing, no seam at the top, blued black
3) early bolt with a central slot, blued black, stamped and folded black extractor
4) early ejector, centered, with a thin blade on a post
5) early recoil assembly with a two-part telescoping piece, blued
6) early trunion, bare metal
7) early solid receiver without a hole under trunion
8 ) early grip assembly with "Made in Japan" stamped underneath
9) early muzzle nut, machined and pressed on by force
10) trunion screws: ?? no idea if mine are large or small
11) early foregrip: very dark brown

Photos:








PS: man, I so dislike putting the receiver back together, it just never wants to snap correctly in right places...

Hello fellow modelgun aficionados!

I have just taken delivery of my 3rd MP40 modelgun, this one a MGC 68!

Here is the data -

1. Serial 4779 on left rear of barrel
2. Mag hsg - Early 1-pc no seam rusty brown
3. Bolt type - type 2??? offset elector cut, no angle mill, large cut on side
4. Ejector - Mid/late offset post
5. Recoil assy - early/mid 2-pc tube pressed into bolt body
6. Trunnion - mid/late chromed Zinc
7. Receiver - doesn't seem to have any 'cut' behind mag hsg
8. Grip - Early "Made In Japan"
9. Muzzle nut - Early blued press-on
10. Trunnion screws - Small? - heads measure ~.214" OD
11. Forearm - appears black

Other observations -

- Grips are brown, no spacer between grip screw & nut (large hole)
- MGC 68 magazine
- Bbl plug, no detonator pin
- Resting bar has big chip out of front; does not stay on
- Barrel has internal blocking 'rib'
- Barrel nut seems to have too steep a chamfer

This replica is well used, rusty in most areas, although bolt face is unmarked...

If anyone has any source for an intact resting bar, I would be interested!

(Otherwise I will attempt to make one out of Delrin).

My 4th MP40 modelgun, another MGC 68!

Here is the data -

1. Serial 14494 on right side front sight base
2. Mag hsg - Early 1-pc no seam rusty brown/gold
3. Bolt type - type 2, offset elector cut, milled angle cut left side
4. Ejector - Mid/late offset post
5. Recoil assy - early/mid 2-pc tube pressed into bolt body
6. Trunnion - mid/late chromed Zinc
7. Receiver - has 'cut' behind mag hsg + 2 holes below mag hsng
8. Grip - late "Japan"
9. Muzzle nut - mid/late gold press-on
10. Trunnion screws - Small? - heads measure ~.214" OD
11. Forearm - mid/late appears black

Other observations -

- Grips are black, no spacer between grip screw & nut (large hole)
- MGC 68 magazine
- Bbl plug, no detonator pin
- Barrel has internal blocking 'rib'
- Barrel nut seems to have too steep a chamfer

This replica is also well used, rusty in most areas, blue turning to patina

Here are some pics of both MGC68's, comparison of differences

1. Serial Number #13774

2. magazine housing.
Early: No seam, one piece-stamped steel assy.
Dark blue color.

3. The bolt type:
Type two. late, offset ejector slot.
Not milled - it will feed dummy rounds.

4. Ejector:
Mid/Late: offset mounted reinforced post zinc alloy.

5. Recoil assembly:
Early/mid production: small diameter spring in a blued, two piece, drawn steel, telescoping tube.

6. barrel trunion:
Mid/late: blued or chromed zinc alloy

7. Receivers:
Early "solid" tube without cut below the barrel trunion.
Single hole and slot for lower assembly.
purple color/tint.

8. Grip assy:
Late: "Japan" on trigger guard.

9. Muzzle nut:
Early: Machined, non-threaded pressed on, usually with a blued steel finish

10. Trunnion screws:
Early: Black oxide finished allen bolt with a small head/shank.

11. Forearm
Mid/Late: Black

Other observations:
This may be a later muzzle nut - but, it has remained black.

Blowing down the barrel - air is venting.
There is a hole drilled beneath the barrel locking nut - some air escapes here.
There is a hole drilled in the top of the barrel locking nut too - a flat headed brass "rivet" has been fitted here, which prevents the barrel locking nut from being unscrewed, so I cannot remove the barrel.

The telescopic section of the recoil tube, sticks to itself when you close it, turn it slightly and it releases.
This causes the bolt to stay to the rear, sometimes, working the cocking handle a couple of times releases it.



The chamber:


Below my 1942 Byf42 original:


From above:


Field stripped:

"The telescopic section of the recoil tube, sticks to itself when you close it, turn it slightly and it releases."

This flow chart is invaluable for minor fixes.