Deactivating model guns.

Hi all, quick question...

I'm a collector in Australia, and to have a blank firing gun you need a firearms license. I don't feel like doing this for a toy. However my states licensing department have informed me that a deactivated blank gun, or model gun, that cannot be reactivated would be an imitation firearm, and I can have it due to my membership of a collectors club.

My question is, can you deactivate a model gun (say a Tanaka Glock, or anything for that matter) in a way that it can't be reactivated, but still can't be cocked, dry fired, and stripped.


Thank you very much.

It all depends on what your licensing department understand by "deactivated". You might want to clarify that to understand better what they actually expect from you.

I think you should also make them aware that a model gun is by definition not capable of shooting, it can only make sound/noise/sparks/flash from detonating a cap just like the one in toy cap guns. Most models have provisions such as metal insert in the barrel, completely blocked barrel, pin inside the chamber, bolt without firing pin, and more. Materials (plastic, zinc-aluminium) are incapable of withstanding shooting blanks as well. Modelguns in fact break apart even from firing the weak caps!

If by "deactivated" they mean that modelguns "can't be cocked, dry fired, and stripped." you would need to break the model in such a way to prevent that:
- fix hammer in place (so it can't be cocked or replaced by a good hammer)
- remove or glue in place model firing pin (so it can't be dry fired)
- glue or weld major parts together so model can't be disassembled. This could be a major task though :-/

I mean that it can be dry fired, cocked, and disassembled.

They were happy if the barrell was plugged and the firing pin filed down.

I'm going to email them and clarify if a PFC would count as a blank firing gun, or an imitation firearm.

That's better :-)

Please explain that these are "cap guns", but not with caps as in XIX century (the ones that could fire bullets), but children caps. Feel free to use my photos and descriptions from the forum (I'm sure others might approve theirs too) if you want to include them for better explanation in your letter.


Most plastic models have a metal insert in the barrel to prevent modification. This is easily seen on the model itself, especially in this transparent plastic one. It also shows that insert is made difficult to remove without breaking whole model:
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t3155-mgc-sig-p210-transparent-abs

Due to how these models work, there is almost always a detonator pin right in the chamber, preventing chambering of any bullet except model cartridges. These are also seen easily on almost every modelgun, after taking barrel out to make access easier. See pictures of transparent MGC SIG P210 to see it well.

Metal (zinc-aluminum, not steel) modelguns have preventive measures as well. You can see their nature at a drawing of a revolver in this article. Insert blocks barrel completely, it is made of hard steel to prevent drilling, and it can't be removed (due to collars). Similar blocks are in the cylinder.
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t1949-history-of-modelgun-industry

Sometimes barrel is not solid, but there is no straight passage from "chamber" to the tip. Smoke has to deviate out of the barrel and back inside, through a detour channel, as there is a hard block inside.

Firing pin can be broken off or damaged to prevent it from operation. Please note that models usually have a plastic firing pin, and that early metal models had an offset pin, or entirely different mechanism (moveable breech block) to push cartridge onto detonator pin. Typical "firing pin in the middle" design (center-fire) was introduced quite late in the hobby.

For many models you can find information what is blocked in the review of a particular model:
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2134-list-of-reviews

What remains are some exceptions, like early steel modelguns (that can be modified to fire blanks), several metal models with open barrels etc.

Hope this helps for starters :-)

Just did a bit more googling, and found this...

Quote :

Starter pistols and blank firing firearms are mechanical devices which rely on a
hammer being set by the user and released by a trigger action to explode blank
shells or paper encased cap ammunition. Certain models also produce a small gust
of smoke once fired.

from here http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.police.vic.gov.au%2Fretrievemedia.asp%3Fmedia_id%3D69237&ei=ahP8T8zPLYyWiQe9q_D7Bg&usg=AFQjCNGKMvDJeh_g7iO6VIwTojVorDa_6Q



So looks like they are counted as blank firing as long as they are still capable of 'firing''

so looks like my only option is one with the detonator pin removed in a way that it can't be replaced, or removed and the barrell plugged... Would this be hard to do?

And by the way you are a gentleman and a scholar!

josh676 wrote:

action to explode blank shells or paper encased cap ammunition.

Really depends on interpretation.
First of all modern modelguns use plastic-encased caps ;-) Literally speaking the do not falll under this category then.
Still, it's better safe then sorry - I suspect authorities would rather say it's a blank firer :-/

As for modification - which particular model interests you?
Changes would depend on specific model construction, as I wrote - take a look at construction details in reviews to maybe figure out what could be done.

It's the https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2955-tanaka-works-glock-18

You can literally unscrew the detonator pin, no idea how you'd make it so you can't just put the pin back in to satisfy the no way to reactivate it.

Here is the email I am going to send to my local licensing division,

Quote :

To Whom It May Concern.

I have a quick question for you, I am a collector of imitation firearms, and am a member of a club with a GIC exemption to have imitation firearms, I have found some models that are called Plug Firing Capguns that I would like to add to my collection, they are overseas and would need to be imported. I am aware that to own a active blank firing gun you require a license. However I don't know if this PFC gun would fit into the definition of a blank firing gun, or an ultra realistic cap gun.

I found this information in a PDF on the Victoria Police Website

"Starter pistols and blank firing firearms are mechanical devices which rely on a
hammer being set by the user and released by a trigger action to explode blank
shells or paper encased cap ammunition. Certain models also produce a small gust
of smoke once fired."

The caps that they fire are made of plastic.

PFC model guns are generally speaking made of plastic, and can only make sound/noise/sparks/flash from detonating a cap that is inserted into a recess in a 'cartridge' as you can see in the picture of the clear gun, they are incapable of chambering either blank, or real rounds. To me the mode in which they operate is exactly the same as a cap gun from a 2 dollar store would, the only thing that seperates the two is the workmanship and realism in the PFC gun.

Thank you for your time.

Do you have anything I should add to it?

I think you should add more specifics - about weak materials, inserts in barrel etc. If they have doubt, they will usually decide in their way just to be safe. If you can convince with lot of information, they could understand better what a modelgun is and decide it's just imitation.

Maybe other members from Down Under could give better advice here.

Good result, I can import them without having to deactivate them. Thanks for the help Smootik, you are a gem.

I'm glad you got it resolved :-)

Just to be sure you might want to ask sender to print out explanation and include it in the box, so in case of inspection it is clear this is not a real gun. It works for me.

Sample text, you need to update sections {inside braces} for a particular model:

Quote :

To Whom it May Concern,

This package contains a toy modelgun of Japanese origin.
It does not contain any elements of a real gun.
Based on requirements of {insert appropriate country name or law name here} law it is not a firearm{/weapon/...}.

As required by Japanese law prohibiting possession and manufacture of weapons this modelgun has been designed so it cannot launch any projectile, or be converted to fire live ammo:
- main body {/frame/receiver} is constructed from plastic {/soft zinc alloy} that would not withstand live or blank ammunition,
- plastic barrel is factory-blocked with metal tab {/barrel is made as full metal, with factory-installed hard rod to prevent drilling,}
- chamber has a front-installed metal pin facing backwards.
- display cartridges that can be cycled through the toy are made of soft brass, with multi-piece construction introducing weak spots.

Included is also original {/a copy of} manufacturer {MGC/CMC/Tanaka...} instruction in Japanese.

Do not hesitate to contact me if you would like more information.

Signed:
XXX {+ phone number}

I've heard that customs have been pulling some up and saying the magazines could be used in real firearms, is that correct? I would imagine they would not be able to be used in a real firearm...

Hi josh676,
They could not really, the springs are too weak. And as the other replicas's pieces they have not the rigth dimentions.

Interesting, customs here are really a law unto themselves though, so even if they spring is too weak and it won't fit a real weapon they may turn around and say no, then good byemoney :-(