Is there interest for a "NEW" all steel STEN MkII?

Post by Claymore

I see that MGC are advertising this as being available soon and they say a silenced version will be available too which sounds interesting.
So are there any updates on it and will we have to buy from MGC or can we get direct from source.

I could well be interested in one of your steel Stens too....
As regards the firing chamber, my MGC Thompson can be difficult to get spotlessly clean as the pin isn't removable.
What about something like the Marushin MP40 chamber with a push in / out pin that makes cleaning really easy?
I've found personally that Marushin MP40 / UZI 9mm rounds work reliably without any hassles with ORings breaking. They would be a good choice I think as they're so simple.
I've just had some MGC 9mm's for my metal UZI. Only fired 10 so far so can't really compare. I'm told that they are far better though so we'll see.

Could Doc please have a look at the possibilities of making steel bolts ( assuming it's legal of course) to replace Zinc ones like MGC's Thompson for example? The zinc ones break or 'mushroom over' eventually maybe steel would be more durable?

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Doc

small update.

apologies in advance for the rubbish photos (he makes guns not good photos )
here are some pics the receiver/chamber barrel part .

http://freespace.virgin.net/kev.rachy/Modelgun%20parts/index.html

outwardly the aim is to make these look as good as possible but the design has had to differ from a real sten to avoid hassle with the home office.

In this the barrel and barrel nut (the bit at the front of a sten with the holes in it ) will come fitted together, this part will then screw/bolt onto the receiver via the three holes you can see, the hole in the middle is the vent hole .
I think its going to be that each gun comes with a spare chamber and one will have a vent hole (for those who want it to vent out the front but have to clean the inside of the barrel) and another chamber with no vent hole (so you only have to clean the chamber )
I`d suggest the insides of the chamber are blued to prevent corrosion but we`ll have to see how this works when its tested.
The chamber will be better quality than the Thompson ones.
MGCUK have sent him some cartridges and Hudson Sten recoil spring so they`ll be working on the bolt next and then one will be shipped to me for testing . (I did all the drawings and its my idea see )
He`d prefer to make a batch so it may be one of you guys get to test the prototype (mine) and we`ll sort some orders from there.

p.s the Silenced versions will be a little later and will possibly have to be a alluminium silencer as a steel one may be too heavy.
we`ll try and make the silencer as an "add on" front instead of the regular barrel
The guy actually wants to see if he can make a working supressor but this may be too costly ....we`ll see .
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Doc

Most of the prototype is now built and they are currently working on the bolt.

The bolt looks as if it will be about 260g and we`ll have to see how well it performs when it gets tested in a few days (hopefully)

more when I know it............

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Doc

Ok Here`s a good update.

The alluminium bolt was way too light and generally not up to long life.
So a specially lightened steel bolt has been made .
Steel bolt approx 450g

The gun`s maker has test fired it and all seems pretty darn good.
I should have it for testing myself in about a week or so.

After that these will be to order only via MGCUK (where each one will be assembled/tested)
Ignore the price shown on there but mention you are from this forum and you will get the discount price of £415
Spare chambers will be available either at time of order or at a later date at a cost of £10
The first gun available will be numbered 0002 .
Its going to be available in either painted black finish (as the real ones) or it can be left bare steel so you guys can polish it and add gun blue if you desire.
There is also (I think) an option to have them chemically blackened but this will cost about £40 extra)
Mags will be Sten mags with either chopped down springs or softer modelgun replacements. (so you don`t have to buy spare mags from MGCUK)
Magazine housings will swivel as per original

The Silencer will be an optional part to follow and will be made to fit the normal MKII (price to be confirmed)
Once again apologies for the photos (not done by me) but you should be able to see some details.
Please note : this Test model has a square cut ejection port and the proper ones will be the correct shape.
Also the lower cover plus screws will be finished in black (or bare steel)
One photo shows the chamber release hex head screw.
Lovely looking isnt it and just think every single part is Steel.

http://freespace.virgin.net/kev.rachy/Modelgun%20parts/index.html

any comments ....
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Certainly looking good now...
Considering that modelguns uk are selling Hudson Mk11's (brand new) for £365 the all steel at £415 sounds attractive enough.
Can't wait to see and read your test results...

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by kickback

That looks the dogs b........

can't wait for them to be on sale,is there a possibility of you posting a video of the sten in action when you recieve your test model ???

A job well done mate!!

Kickback

Post by Claymore

Looks superb and the steel bolt is good news, not only for longevity but should give a better recoil, £415 sounds like a great price and i will be first in the queue
Meant to ask what paint finish is on the one in the pic as that looks good

Post by Doc

Hi Chaps,

yep I`ll get some video done as soon as I`ve had a little play.
The test model has been done in a black primer with black satin over the top.

I`ll also get some photos done of it stripped down, closeups of the bolt etc

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Mark

It's looking great! I wonder is the extractor going to remain long?Are the "loop" type stocks going to be available? And, are they going to have the classic "made in England" on their sides? I like the correct looking details (with the exception of the extractor and ejection port) And finally, how many anti-conversion steps have been taken? (receiver larger internally than the real sten etc.)


P.S. Anyone know just what type of paint the original Stens had on them?
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Doc

Hi Mark,
Not sure about the extractor until I have seen it up close , Yes, the proper for sale ones will have the correct ejection port. Its been made to use the original T Stock so as long as you can find the loop type it will fit, there are also pistol grips I have seen on the market in the USA that will fit.
Not sure on the "Made in England" stampings but a good point.

As far as I know the internal of the receiver is similar to the original , however, in the UK its illegal to own a real sten bolt so that won`t matter for the home market. I think any made for a foreign (non UK ) market will have the cocking slot say five degrees out so real bolts cannot be used. (This could be done for all of them to be true)
There is also an HSS pin in the breech and the face of the bolt (so the bolt cannot be drilled to take a firing pin.
Its unlikely a spare bolt will ever be needed but the cost of a spare has been calculated at £70

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Doc

He he ....I have been sat here for the last two days with a big grin on my face after test firing the Custom Sten MGCUK are putting out .

well chaps ...its bloody marvelous to say the least.

As solid as a rock, no wobbly bits and man does that bolt slide nicely.

Ok I`ll see about getting some photos up tomorrow but suffice to say I wish all modelguns were made this nicely.
Only downside points ....... the crap the cartridges put out go straight to work on all the steel from the first shot.
I first fired a couple of bursts with the bolt in shiny steel and put it down for a couple of hours, when I came back for a little "play" the whole bolt and chamber had gone pale brown (actually bronze coloured) and whilst it looked nice I figured it would not be long before it went a little more red . i.e rusty.
Upshot is, the bolts need blueing for sure.
The rest of the paint finish is ok although I think all over blue might look nice as I can see the paint scratching off over time.
(I think they were blackened via a chemical process for real)
A definate positive is the fact that the detonator chamber can be removed in about two seconds which makes it excellent for cleaning .

Ok I`ll get some photos uploaded tomorrow and possibly some vid if I can persuade the other half to hold the camera .

apart from that I think they will be up for order on June 6th..... hummm I wonder why that date was picked ??

(this is a retorical question)

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

D-Day for Doc's Sten...
Can't wait to see this working. If the smoke and fumes from the charge react that quickly on bare steel, and as you say Doc, bluing the bolt will protect that, how easy is the rest of the gun to clean?
I've seen my own models almost seeped in browny deposits internally because the smoke tends to "flow" everywhere. Complete strips are necessary sometimes to ensure everything's spotless.
The barrel can be treated like a real one I guess, cleaned with a pull- through and oil? Is the trigger mechanism easy to strip and clean too?
Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Doc

Hi Chaps,

well my Virgin server won`t allow me to upload today so Claymore (I hope you don`t mind) I have sent you some photos and an Avi clip.
(no laughing at my posture gents)

Hopefully claymore can get them hosted somewhere today or if you want the avi direct just PM me your email address. the file is about 2mb.
(about 20 shots in bursts)

God this gun is great, I have now fired at least 150 shots without one single stoppage / jam or missfire .
One of the photos shows the back of the cartridges after they have been through the gun about four times and they are completly unmarked.
See the photo of the face of the bolt . not a mark to the feed lips (unlike my Hudson one)

The bolt/sear are so perfectly matching that its possible to really controll the bursts if you are light on the trigger .
recoil is nice due to the heavy bolt, in fact I gave it to the wife to fire about six rounds and she couldnt stop laughing afterwards due to being rocked about.

I`ve fired at least three mags today without cleaning the gun /chamber or cartidges once and still it worked perfectly.
The hardest part of the gun to clean will be the inside of the receiver but if like me you soak this in oil beforehand it wont be too difficult to keep spotless.

Cerwyn, in answer to your questions : the trigger mech strips like the real one, except unlike Hudsons job the lower receiver part does not dismantle from the upper receiver. No you cannot use a pull through for the barrel as the breech end of the barrel only has a 2mm hole for at least an inch and a half and then it opens out to 9mm. Soak it in oil and pull a bit of string though to clean the thin bit and a long small wire brush for the wider part I recon.

in short ...its the dogs...

DOC

p.s anyone want to buy a cheap Hudson Sten MK II !!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Mark

Cool Doc!

I can't wait to see the new MGC UK StenMK2! I am sure that it will be a great modelgun..However, I still don't know just how the ATFE will react to it importation wise. You had mentioned the CMC Sten before and that it was successfully imported into the U.S. with out a problem it very probably was accepted for import as it was approved as an "non-gun" in the 1970's by the ATF. Another thing that might complicate the approval is that your receiver can accept an actual sized Sten bolt compared to the CMC,MGC or the Hudson made Stens that have oversized bolts/larger internal receiver sizes that the ATFE prefers. However, I am reasonably sure that your new Sten can be approved but, I am not at all sure just how to have it submitted for their possible approval.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Doc

my server seems to be uploading now and here are some photos

http://freespace.virgin.net/kev.rachy/Modelgun%20parts/index.html

photo 1 : The gun
photo 2 : The steel bolt with holes drilled to get the weight down
photo 3 : The hex screw and wrench to remove to chamber (this prototype has its MGC number on the underside of the mag housing but I think the sale models it will be on top)
photo 4 : The chamber pops out as easy as that
photo 5 : the face of the bolt after some 150 rounds and showing the HSS pin ( I think the sale models will have this pin offset slightly)
photo 6 : The backs of the rounds after going through the thing about four times each , no deformation, kinks or anything else likely to shorten their life. yes this gun is "cartridge friendly"

Right I`m off to buy a load more magazines............
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Mark

Doc, that's great that the ejector doesn't scar up the back of the rounds as of course, that shortens the cartridges useful life. Very impressive! I certainally hope to obtain one of these "Sten's" as it looks as well as works great!

The pictures are nice but, i am sure that the gun looks much better in person. I am not sure but i think that the actual Stens where phospated before they where painted black. If the cost wasn't too bad it would be nice to hard chrome the bolt as well as the chamber to slow up the rust. Or, some industral coating of some sort might be used instead.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by reemo

Im ready to buy!

When do you think these guns will be shipping to the states?
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Doc

Hi Mark,

yes it would have been nice to have a little more time for things like chrome bolts etc however with the VCR bill due anytime soon in the UK the priority has been to get them working well and getting parts together to build as many as possible .
With one, possibly two blokes hand building these its going to take a while to get enough made.

As for shipping to the states... God knows, as your law differs greatly from ours so it needs looking into to ensure they are safe to send .
It doesnt help that different states of yours seem to have completely different rules.
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Claymore

I think Doc has managed to get all the pics uploaded sorry i could not get them up earlier but i have not been in, however i have got the vid up if you have a problem with it let me know and i will try to change the format.
Both pics and vid look great doc and like reemo i am ready to buy, i have to say it makes change us brits been able to get something the Americans can't, hope it will pass any tests for importing though.

https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v627/claymore/?action=view&current=steelsten.flv

Post by Mark

The video looks cool and the gun works great!

Quote :

i have to say it makes change us brits been able to get something the Americans can't, hope it will pass any tests for importing though.

It is an interesting paradox isn't it? It's just another example of how a U.S. government agency can interpret the bill of rights in order to justify it's expensive and tax gathering existence. The ATFE's joker card has been called by congress several times for it's interpretations on it's many cases of abuse of legal firearms owners over the years and still they get away with many sins...

Post by reemo

Id like to see a full stream of rounds...fire a whole mag at once.

Im trying to get a feel for the rate of fire, but I cant from that vid (burst stop - burst stop).

My only guess after watching, is that the rate is a tad sluggish.....2 caps per round or lighten the bolt some more. No?
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Claymore

Have to disagree with you on this one reemo, the vid itself does not flow that well and i thing that was about 20 rounds fired in what 4 bursts so 5 rounds a burst seems fine to me, personally i dont want it to fire too quick as i want to be able to get contolled bursts from it. Too many of the modelguns i have fire way to fast and a couple of pulls on the trigger and the mag has gone, so if the rate of fire is slower that would be fine by me.

Post by reemo

I agree it would be a good rate of fire for a Grease gun, but slow for a Sten.......I really cant tell from that video......anyway of doing a video showing a nice full magazine burp, uninterrupted?
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Mark



Actually, the real Sten's rate of fire is 550 rounds a minute and i would say that Doc's Sten's rate of fire is nearly (if not) the same as the real item.

I too prefer a slower rate of fire as it gives me time to enjoy the magazine longer. The real M3A1's rate of fire is closer to 350 rounds a minute!

Finally, i would also like to see a full magazine expended from that "Sten!"
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms