Is there interest for a "NEW" all steel STEN MkII?

Post by reemo

If you can derive 550 RPM from THAT video, you're a better man than me.

Maybe its my computer (choppy?), but that video makes the gun look reaaaal "pokey".....undesirable.

I. Can. Hear. The. Bolt. Carrier. Hit. The. Stops. Each. Time. It. Fires.







(I have shot real full auto Stens - and M3's).
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Doc

Hi Reemo not sure what you mean by "pokey" ... to me this means a small space ?

Its not the best vid as my Camera is now five years old (and a fuji)
I think the ROF is pretty good and I`ll see about getting a full mag vid done.
I did this in bursts to show it can be controlled.

Also the sound quality is rubbish as it was shot in a echo chamber or a spare room.

If I can get it fired outside I will try but anyone in the UK will know what I mean when I say firing replicas outside is not best advised ...
(like we have armed response units turning up pretty sharpish)

The guy that made it has fired real ones too....as well as full silenced versions !

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Firing outside definately ain't a good idea Doc! Believe this or not, a good mate of mine was somewhat surprised when 4 or 5 armed policemen jumped over his garden fence, ordered him to the floor whilst pointing MP5's at him, amidst lots of shouting and screaming...
All he'd done was got a backfire from his car's exhaust while he was servicing it!
Nosey neighbours heard a bang, rang the police, somebody actually told 'em a man was running about with a rifle or a shotgun...

Keep it indoors mate...

I just e-mailed Kevin at MGCUK, I've ordered a Sten...

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Doc

Hi Cerwyn,

Yep I went full auto this morning and have sent you and Claymore the Avi.

Apart from me not cocking the bolt enough first attempt (nervous on camera ... ha ) it looks pretty good and yes inside was decided upon as the safest bet .
shame us lot have to wait for 5th Nov before we can shoot outside !!

Its 24 rounds from what they call an "Indian" magazine , apart from yourself and Claymore does anyone know what this means ????

its not a quiz and no prizes will be given out .....ha

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Hiya

I've no idea what an "Indian" magazine is...
Looking forwards to getting the Avi

MGCUK have just taken my order and offered a choice of finishes
either bare steel so I can blue it myself
or satin or matt paint
Apparently another gunsmith is havinga look at finishes so the option is still open. I'll await further info regarding that one.
All coming together nicely now!

Cer
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by allenb

Indian mag mod consisted of making the mag single stack using copper or brass strips inside the mag and modding the mag follower.
Improved reliability but decreased capacity...

Post by Doc

Spot on Sir !

with the strips removed you can squeeze in about 24 rounds and then you`d need a loading tool for any more as it all goes quite stiff .
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Mark

Quote :

Hi Reemo not sure what you mean by "pokey" ... to me this means a small space ?

Doc, Pokey can mean either a very slow speed as Reemo suggested or an old time reference to an old west jail cell.
Reemo, what I am trying to get accross is the firing rate of the Sten is very slow and i think that Doc's Sten is right on. As far as determining the rate of fire from that very,very short burst it's easy as i have listened to lots of actual submachine guns over the years i think i just need 3 rounds going off to tell
Doc, are all of the remaining Sten magazines in the U.K just the horrible Indian version? I think that the original magazines needed the loading tool after the 20 th round anyway...

Post by Doc

Hi Mark,

thanks for the rundown , now that you mention it we would say "something has got some poke" to refer to it being fast
Not sure on the magazine situation.

Last year at Beltring war and peace show I went to a stand that had a huge (and I mean huge) crate of sten mags all still wrapped in paper.
At that time I wasnt interested in real sten mags so didnt investigate further.
I will this year though (in July )

I`ll send you the 24 round burst I did this morning and you can get a better idea hopefully.
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Claymore

Hi Guys, Ok this is docs full mag blat off vid, i think this gun looks great and i think you have to accept that as it is an avi d/load its not the best format for vids but you have to keep the file small so comprimises have to be made but i think the gun looks great when its firing and 20 or 25 rounds go pretty quick so it aint that slow.

https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v627/claymore/?action=view&current=steelsten1.flv

Post by reemo

THANK YOU Claymore.

The audio is improved on this vid.

The first one was so choppy that I couldnt distinguish between caps popping (firing) and empty cartridges hitting the floor (or wall?)

I couldnt lock onto a ROF for the life of me.

NOTE/HINT for future sales.............we here ALL know that demo videos either make or break a model gun's sale. Think back to how many times we were either so impressed by (or disappointed by) a video of a model gun being fired.....

That damn HUDSON M3A1 demo video at modelgun/UK made me HAVE to get one that week!

Audio is sooooooo important!
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by reemo

THANK YOU Claymore.

The audio is improved on this vid.

The first one was so choppy that I couldnt distinguish between caps popping (firing) and empty cartridges hitting the floor (or wall?)

I couldnt lock onto a ROF for the life of me.

NOTE/HINT for future sales.............we here ALL know that demo videos either make or break a model gun's sale. Think back to how many times we were either so impressed by (or disappointed by) a video of a model gun being fired.....

That damn HUDSON M3A1 demo video at modelgun/UK made me HAVE to get one that week!

Audio is sooooooo important!
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

reemo wrote:

NOTE/HINT for future sales.............we here ALL know that demo videos either make or break a model gun's sale. Think back to how many times we were either so impressed by (or disappointed by) a video of a model gun being fired.....

That damn HUDSON M3A1 demo video at modelgun/UK made me HAVE to get one that week!

Audio is sooooooo important!

I couldn't agree more on that! the same Hudson M3A1 video sold me that gun. Likewise, certain dealers poorer video's have convinced me NOT to bother.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Claymore

Taking vid is not easy and if you only have your normal home vid camera you are a bit limited. I know diggy cams are very good these days but sound wise i am not sure how you would get the sound right for instance, i am limited to where i can fire the gun it has to be inside and somewhere i am not going to damage anything and so sound quality is going to be effected. Sometimes the gun sounds fine, the sten did that i took and the ingram sounds fine but i have binned others handguns normally as they come out as a pop. So sometimes its luck of the draw with the sound i have no idea how to improve on it as i dont have the kit (or time) to try to do better, any suggestions would be gratfully accepted also it depends what format you save the vid in, i go for win media player but it has to be on a medium quality so as to keep the file small which effects both pic and sound.
If you could post 10,20 or 30 meg clips it would be great but you have to keep them to around 2 or less which is not fantastic. I agree with you boys on all your points but it aint that easy and i feel at least with a vid even if pic and sound are not the best at least you see the gun fire and fire well or jam on every round.

All that said i have just paid my deposit for the new steel sten and look forward to getting next month, i have to say that this has all happened very quickly from doc suggesting it to actually buying one has happened nearly overnight, i expected it be about 6/8 months away.
I had to have this model though so its hit my wallet a bit as i was not intending to get anything expensive for at least a couple of months.

Again any pointers on better vid and sound will be welcome'd

Hiya Claymore

I haven't a clue regarding the technicalities of making videos but can sympathise with you trying to capture everything. Sound must be bloody difficult. I'm sure some of the retailers vid's are taken in a chamber of some sort that creates an echo almost, enhancing the 'bang'. Jay's video's are out in his back garden by the look of them and his SMG ones sound great The pistol ones are a bit quiet though but if that's what they're really like then so be it. At least you know what to expect after parting with cash.
If I remember right, Rizzo posted a vid of a 1911 Colt some time ago that sounded fantastic, really booming! But it had been enhanced by dubbing sound from a game. For effect it was brilliant, but not a true representation of the model. If the model did sound that good I'd buy one today! Really cleverly done, I don't know how he synchronised the sound with the images but it's really good.
My deposit's in for Doc's Sten too. Can't wait! MGCUK have just updated their site with new specs and video's of it, I'm drooling already.
Doc needs congratulating for getting this project up and running so fast. I hope he sells stacks of them and encourages him to try another model maybe?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

Ok guys, that bought these new Stens...

How do you like them?
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

Hi Mark, superb very pleased with mine i intend to get a review and some vid on it but have not had the time.
The model is extremly well made and fires great with a great sound, only the mag lets it down at the moment. These models use real sten mags which apparently are notorious for being hard to load by hand (i can only get 15 rounds in) so you need a loading tool, the gun fires so well that you need at least 25 rounds to appreciate it and i am working on the mag to sort that out.
I will get a better review of this model as it deserves one but for the time being i am well pleased and the price for an all steel gun like this is superb.
A great buy and its British

Post by francky1958

hi claymore,

i really want to see that please~!

I've also bought one and as Claymore says, it's superb.
I'd like to compile a review myself too but Claymore does them so much better and he's got a camera and video!
My version has a skeleton stock rather than the T shaped stock.
It's beautifully made, has the chemical black finish and looks absolutely real.
It's relatively easy to strip, the stock slides off unlocking the recoil spring retainer at the rear of the receiver.
The cap pops out, spring out, followed by the bolt itself oncethe cocking lever's been pulled out.
The detonator chamber, similar to the MGC Thompson with integral non removable pin, but much better made, can be difficult to remove from the barrel. Mine won't tap out as the instruction sheet suggests, so again, following the instructions, the barrel's removed by unscrewing 3 retaining screws deep inside the barrel shroud tube.
My only criticism, and this is splitting hairs really, is that the Allen key supplied isn't long enough to reach the screws and turn fully, you have to give each screw a half turn before the tool fouls the barrel. Easily sorted with a longer Key though! and certainly doesn't detract from the gun.
Once the barrel's off, you can see a small 2mm hole drilled in the end of the receiver tube. I used a short steel rod (part of the Marushin XM177E kit tool kit) to push through the hole and tap it with a small hammer.
That pushed the detonator chamber out easily enough.
There are 2 small holes drilled through the chamber base to vent smoke out through the 2mm single hole and then out of the barrel.
Cleaning is easy, I've been using Browning Aerosol Gun Oil which cleans and lubricates. There's ample room to push a rag or cloth down the receiver tube and the bolt is dead easy to clean.
My gun was a bit 'sticky' on arrival, the bolt was catching slightly but stripping and cleaning down with oil had it sliding really nice and freely.
Loading the mags is a real job. I had 2 supplied, one a 32rd standard mag, the second the Indian version issued later to overcome jamming problems the 32rder had. The Indian has brass runners inside making the mag a single stack feed and reducing capacity to 19.
The single stack feed is supposed to overcome the jamming probs caused by the 32 rd'ers double stacking.
Springs are very heavy being real firearm items.
I can't get anymore than 15/16 into the 32rd mag, no more than 6 or 7 into the Indian mag.
Kevin at modelguncollector told me to cut the springs to leave 1.5 coils (one and a half coils) protruding from the bottom of the mag wiith the cap removed. We tried this and managed 17 into the 32rd, about 11 into the Indian.
He suggested trying the Hudson M3A1 mag spring but mine is a fraction too wide and catches the mag body. Maybe Marushin MP40 Mag springs will be ok but I haven't tried that yet.
A mag loader could well be the answer! I've just bought one a genuine Sten WW2 tool but it's slightly twisted and I can't get the mag to push inside it so that'll need looking at next.
Anyway, with 2 part loaded mags, let's try firing...
Single shot first by pushing the selector button in...
Bang! and a good strong ejection of the spent round, bolt re-cocked automatically...
Again... BANG! Same result...
Select Full Auto and squeeze...
Rat..Tat...Tat...Tat...Tat...Tat... YESS! Lovely! And again.. squeeze and Rat...Tat...Tat till the mag emptied.
Plenty of smoke from port and barrel, nice metallic clatter as well as the caps banging, fabulous!
Next mag in anf full auto all the way till empty.
Rate of fire is nice and slow, I wouldn't haave a clue as to rounds per minute but it just sounds so realistic!
Some models seem to fire rather too fast, but this is perfect.
Checking the rounds afterwards showed signs of denting around the nose, where the firing pin enters, and marks around the base where bolt and ejector claw clout the round.
I put 1 round through 3 times, and the nose had 3 dents about the hole afterwards.
This gun may be heavy on rounds if used regularly but I guess it's better to damage brass than bolts ain't it?
We've plenty of problems with zinc bolts breaking on models but this steel job won't break!
Overall impressions is this is a superb model. It's a beautiful reproduction of a classic WW2 gun, even down to gas welds around the trigger housing! The other welds seem to be Mig but who cares! It's a superb model.
Best of all it works and works well. Once the magazines are sorted with springs to allow proper filling, it'll be even better.
DOC should be proud that his design and idea works! Well done DOC.
Kevin at Modelguncollector markets these and he's onto a winner.
I'll be looking forwards to Claymore's review and his thoughts as he's far more knowledgable than I am!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

Oh wow, these look awesome!

awesome is right Rizzo, hopefully Claymore will get some video clips and photo's done ( I hope!)
I'll try borrowing a camera from somewhere too
I think you should buy one mate, machine guns are sooooo much better than pistols!



Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by rizzo

ahh found them. Gah, time to save up

Have a look at http://www.modelguncollector.co.uk/index_wwII.html ... Custom built Sten...
Prices vary on spec BUT...
When forum member DOC, he designed this remember, informed us of it's existence he said he had arranged a special discount for forum members... It'll be worth asking Kevin at Modelguncollector if that discount is still available?
It may look expensive at first glance, but consider that a zinc Hudson Sten costs £365 over here, this one's STEEL and will outlast zinc (I bloody hope so anyway!)
Semi Auto pistols aren't far short of £200 give or take a few quid, so for just over twice that, you get a steel sub machine gun...

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

Thanks for the replies guys! I am sure that there are others on the forums that have also purchased these new "Stens"
I know my mostly all steel CMC Sten is a great modelgun too but, it has some detail problems that just don't look correct (like the front sight location) otherwise, the CMC is a great model they are hard to find however and they can be very expensive too.
Cerwyn, My CMC also dents the cartridge mouths and generally beats up the cartridges a little bit. It appears that all of these modelguns do that somewhat though so no bigee...
Now, the ModelGunCollector Stens appear to have all of the correct details and they are far more available than the hard to find CMC and far better than the zinc Hudson Stens..

claymore wrote:

A great buy and its British

That's very true in this case! I am glad to see that these "Stens" can still be made and sold in the UK just like in WW2 minus of course, the ability to fire bullets and the like